DC Cinematic Universe: Let the Blames Begin

[Heartofice]

24 minutes ago, Ran said:

The CinemaScore for the film was a B, which you would think is pretty good, but it's not.  Which means that audiences that watch it are likelier to be unenthused. There's a post at the boxoffice subreddit discussing how directors who direct B cinemascore films for WB and Marvel tend to never do a blockbuster again for them (or, in some cases, anyone), with Zack Snyder the only exception after BvS and we all know the mess that was his Justice League.

A writer at Variety is arguing that it's more a general fatigue towards superheroes that can only be alleviated (by the makers of superhero films) by making better films than The Flash. Could be right.

There is definitely an appetite for good movies, and good movies breed sequels and appetite for more.

There was clearly a point in time where you could get by as a studio by making any old crap based on comic book properties, get a good trailer together and some buzz online and people will go see it. I will never get over how that first Suicide Squad movie did so well, it’s one of the worst movies I’ve ever seen. 

Hopefully now the new normal is that if you want to make a franchise then you need to make something good. Which is why the decisions to push out shit like Morbius or Kraven seem even odder. At this point I would rather they took the tax money and just binned movies. 
 

WB/DC still make Joker and The Batman so they have at least part of their head screwed on right. Anyway I think the movie climate is changing, people are less willing to go to theatres to watch non tentpole movies and streaming doesn’t make the DVD money. I’m sure we will see big changes in years to come. 

[Darryk]

I thought it was superhero fatigue but Spider-Man: Across the Spiderverse made me think otherwise. I think most of the superhero films have just been generic and crap lately.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

16 minutes ago, Darryk said:

I thought it was superhero fatigue but Spider-Man: Across the Spiderverse made me think otherwise. I think most of the superhero films have just been generic and crap lately.

Animated vs live action. Also unique visuals. Also great.

I also think Spider-Man is one of those IP’s that transcends the genre. He’s more durable than others.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

14 hours ago, karaddin said:

Depp is a comparison where there's more of an argument, and I think it simply comes down to Depp being a bit of a borderline call - the people that didn't want to see him in movies felt they needed to fight to see that happen. Miller is just so brazen that it's kind of stunned disbelief DC just plowed ahead trying to make it happen, it doesn't need much conversation because I can't see anyone needing to be convinced other than DC itself. And apparently the only way to do that is to make it bomb at the box office and audience reviews.

I hate to say this… but I think the problem was “The Flash” was in the can when the most noxious shit Miller had (allegedly) done came out.  They didn’t want to not release.

So… here we are.

[Frey family reunion]

I’ve reached a point where I’m more than happy to wait and watch these movies when they come out on the streaming platforms.  I think a lot of people may be at that point as well.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

31 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I hate to say this… but I think the problem was “The Flash” was in the can when the most noxious shit Miller had (allegedly) done came out.  They didn’t want to not release.

So… here we are.

Shazam 2 had zero controversy and it got destroyed. It utterly failed to generate any hype prior to its release. A sequel to a film with 90% RT critics and audience scores and no one gave a shit.

We still have several superhero films coming out this year and I’m not optimistic about any of them. Except Kraven. Aaron Taylor Johnson’s abs shall bring the girls to the yard. Indeed.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Shazam 2 had zero controversy and it got destroyed. It utterly failed to generate any hype prior to its release. A sequel to a film with 90% critics and audience scores and no one gave a shit.

We still have several superhero films coming out this year and I’m not optimistic about any of them. Except Kraven. Aaron Taylor Johnson’s abs shall bring the girls to the yard. Indeed.

Superhero fatigue?

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

8 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Superhero fatigue?

Slow death of a genre that’s been on rapid burn for two decades. Cameos, callbacks, Easter eggs, post-credit scenes, fan service, and (recently) nostalgia are no substitute for creativity. And this is a genre that’s creatively tapped out. 

[sifth]

51 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Animated vs live action. Also unique visuals. Also great.

I also think Spider-Man is one of those IP’s that transcends the genre. He’s more durable than others.

GoTG vol 3 was really good as well. 

[sifth]

19 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Shazam 2 had zero controversy and it got destroyed. It utterly failed to generate any hype prior to its release. A sequel to a film with 90% RT critics and audience scores and no one gave a shit.

We still have several superhero films coming out this year and I’m not optimistic about any of them. Except Kraven. Aaron Taylor Johnson’s abs shall bring the girls to the yard. Indeed.

Didn’t The Rock play a role in ruining that film?

[Derfel Cadarn]

3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Superhero fatigue?

Also money is tight for a lot of people, and I suspect people havent re-acquired the habit of going to the cinema once or twice a month after clvid, only going to see big tentpole stuff.

And of course why bother when you can stream/blu-ray it a few months later on an ultra-hd tv?

I’ve not been to see an MCU film since Spider Man Far from Home (which was pre covid). Partly becsuee I’ve a kid now (though she was born in 2018) but largely becauee I’ve D+ and I prefer to watch it in my house woth a takeaway or homecooked meal and a glass of wine.

edit: Also worth noting the first MCU film I went to see in cinema was Avengers (tho owned the prior ones on dvd). After Avengers Insaw then all in thr cinema save for thr Antman films, the last beijg Far From Home.

edit: Insaw GotG3 the other week actually

Edited June 20, 2023 by Derfel Cadarn

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

8 minutes ago, sifth said:

Didn’t The Rock play a role in ruining that film?

Sure; If you believe that the right combination of cameo/post-credit hoo-ha would magically add $300 million to the box office. I’m doubtful.

11 minutes ago, sifth said:

GoTG vol 3 was really good as well. 

Haven’t seen it. Plan to.

To be clear, there will be successes going forward. It’s not all doom and gloom. But there’ll be failures too. It’s not like, “Film ‘X’ was a roaring success: super hero fatigue is dead”, or, “Film ‘Y’ crashed and burned; super hero fatigue is back.”

On balance, it’ll become a shakier proposition to make these films in the next few years. 

[DaveSumm]

I think I remember people talking about superhero fatigue when Amazing Spider-Man was announced. That was 13 years ago. Wasn’t true then, isn’t true now. We don’t need anymore reasons for Flash to flop: 1) Miller is apparently a piece of shit, 2) DC couldn’t market it properly because of 1), 3) DCEU movies have been staggeringly bad since forever, 4) the CGI is truly terrible in places and 5) this movie isn’t that good.

I wonder how it would’ve done if Gunn hadn’t announced that it would ‘reboot’ the DC universe? That’s the only reason I saw it opening weekend, and it’s the first thing I was asked here afterwards. 

[Luzifer's right hand]

3 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Sure; If you believe that the right combination of cameo/post-credit hoo-ha would magically add $300 million to the box office. I’m doubtful.

I'm a fan of The Rock when he plays a funny guy in a jungle. I will watch a movie that has that premise without even watching the trailer. I never even considered watching a superhero movie starring him. I wonder if I'm the only one who feels that way.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

11 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I think I remember people talking about superhero fatigue when Amazing Spider-Man was announced. That was 13 years ago. Wasn’t true then, isn’t true now. We don’t need anymore reasons for Flash to flop: 1) Miller is apparently a piece of shit, 2) DC couldn’t market it properly because of 1), 3) DCEU movies have been staggeringly bad since forever, 4) the CGI is truly terrible in places and 5) this movie isn’t that good.

I wonder how it would’ve done if Gunn hadn’t announced that it would ‘reboot’ the DC universe? That’s the only reason I saw it opening weekend, and it’s the first thing I was asked here afterwards. 

Y’know, even in The Boy Who Cried Wolf, there eventually was, in fact, a wolf. Thirteen years ago the first Avengers film didn’t even exist. A lot has happened since then. Like, almost everything. 

yeah, I don’t think the announcement of the new DC slate helped.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Heartofice]

53 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Also money is tight for a lot of people, and I suspect people havent re-acquired the habit of going to the cinema once or twice a month after clvid, only going to see big tentpole stuff.

Yeah I’m actually not convinced by super hero fatigue as a thing now I think about it, too many comic book movies still do well to signal an entire genre dying. Spider-Man, Joker, GotG..

I think it’s more like the above, changing behaviour makes viewers a bit pickier as to what they are prepared to see in the cinema. Something has to be pretty special to make it worth going for a lot of people now, otherwise you can just watch it at home risk free later.

Its just that almost all movies are superhero movies now, so it’s quite noticeable.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Heartofice

[Corvinus85]

I thought The Flash was decent, but nothing special. Good performances, as much I dislike having to give Miller credit. CGI heavy, and unfortunately not very good for the most part. The story was OK, but it loses cohesion in the final part. Some of the quick cameos brought a tear, or a chuckle, or a huh? Keaton's part wasn't that special in the end. They could have had any other Batman version where the actor is at least 50, and it would have worked the same.

Having recently re-watched Spider-Man: No Way Home, The Flash is sadly vastly inferior from just about every perspective.

[Jaxom 1974]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I hate to say this… but I think the problem was “The Flash” was in the can when the most noxious shit Miller had (allegedly) done came out.  They didn’t want to not release.

So… here we are.

Something is still off about the whole process though. Sure it was done, but they could have shelved it. They shelved Batgirl and that movie didn't have any off screen law enforcement related issues that I'm aware of...

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Also money is tight for a lot of people, and I suspect people havent re-acquired the habit of going to the cinema once or twice a month after clvid, only going to see big tentpole stuff.

 

Also...there is the idea of what going to movies now is also. Going to a theatre isn't just a film, some candy, a bucket of popcorn, and a pop...something that, for a family of 4, was crawling up into the $100+ range for an outing and that was before theatres became the full on night-time destination with restaurants and/or food service to your seats plus full bars and arcades and all of it.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind going to movies more, even post Covid, but I can think of many other ways to spend that kind of money each month...you know, on a car payment or something like that...

[JGP]

25 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Something is still off about the whole process though. Sure it was done, but they could have shelved it. They shelved Batgirl and that movie didn't have any off screen law enforcement related issues that I'm aware of...

To this, the point of these massive IPs [Star Wars, Marvel, DC, etc] or even very successful literary ones with a built in fan base queued for adaptation [ASoIaF, Harry Potter, etc] is studio executives see that as money in the bank. But Batgirl, she ain't that [maybe OG Batgirl, or Cassandra Kane, but you got to build up for that imo] Flash though, being a founding member of the JL, perhaps they thought that would get it over the hump with the fucked up star, relatively shitty ROI on their last half dozen efforts, et so on. Kids t-ball field vs major ballpark between the two budget wise as well, which plays a roll. When you choose what and whatnot to write down, sure you can hedge your bets but you're still gambling.

Another issue is when a film doesn't meet box office expectations it doesn't feel like WB is doing proper post mortems. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by JGP

[JGP]

And, zero fucks what audience and critics rated the first Shazam, it was crap. Billy Batson as Captain Marvel is a kid in a grown man's body, and they fucked the opportunity to illustrate childlike wonder and earnest idealism granted the power to act... right in the goat ass.

Edited June 20, 2023 by JGP