UK Politics: Bully for you

[Raja]

Sigh. Does this seem right?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

@dog-days Read that article too, was startling yet not too surprising. We have significant issues with men & masculinity that we're just not tackling.

The topic is discussed literally all the time and there are significant efforts to tackle it. Not being able to completely solve something isn't the same as doing nothing about it.

 

[Derfel Cadarn]

Had Johnson not been ousted, apparently it would have been Rees-Mogg who woukd have gotten tk csrry the sword

[Derfel Cadarn]

 

[mormont]

2 hours ago, dog-days said:

I haven't been following the coronation discussions here and elsewhere closely, but at least based on the Twitter reactions I've been seeing, the talk has been mainly about the rather striking dress. Think there's also a narrow but deep gulf between 'that person looks really elegant'* and typical 'totally fuckable/eight out of ten/I'd tell her to sit on my face if I was Sunak' locker-room talk.

Well, we haven't quite got as bad as the latter lot. But, though some people clearly don't like to see it pointed out, the comments we do have about Mordaunt were more in that vein than the 'elegant dress' vein.

I certainly won't pretend I don't notice a good looking woman (though honestly, I see more attractive women than Mordaunt every day). And I'm certainly anything but a prude, as I think anyone who knows me is aware. But there's a time and a place and a way to comment on these things that's not crass and reductive of women in public life. We can do better, folks.

2 hours ago, dog-days said:

Re: the article. I did like the way that at the end the breakdown was: 50% good people, 25% excellent, 25% walking problems that should never have been recruited in the first place. I've had relatives in the police, and do feel for the ones trying to do a decent job while the horrors go around stamping on whatever good will has been created by the others. 

* In the context of an event focused on appearance and pageantry 

I've known a few police personally myself, and had some good experiences as well as bad ones. And I can't blame folks for not speaking out sometimes: it must be exhausting trying to be a decent person in that culture. But that's the point: the culture needs to change.

[Heartofice]

6 minutes ago, mormont said:

I certainly won't pretend I don't notice a good looking woman (though honestly, I see more attractive women than Mordaunt every day). And I'm certainly anything but a prude, as I think anyone who knows me is aware. But there's a time and a place and a way to comment on these things that's not crass and reductive of women in public life. We can do better, folks.

Just a note that commenting on the physical appearance of male politicians is basically standard practice, in a far more insulting manner, I don’t see any sort of commentary on how ‘we can do better’.

I would say anyone trying to make the comparison  between that guardian article and some of the comments on here would almost certainly be falling into the ‘prude’ category, although I’d suggest something closer to a modern day Mary Whitehouse is more accurate.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Heartofice

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Just a note that commenting on the physical appearance of male politicians is basically standard practice, in a far more insulting manner, I don’t see any sort of commentary on how ‘we can do better’.

(1) So one tends to be done in an insulting manner and the other tends to be done in what manner? If your answer is "in a far more sexualized manner that objectifies them," then you would be correct. 

(2) An admonition to do better regarding one doesn't preclude us from trying to be better in our behavior about both. 

[Heartofice]

15 minutes ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

(2) An admonition to do better regarding one doesn't preclude us from trying to be better in our behavior about both. 

And yet it does seem to preclude a lot of people.. which is my point. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

And yet it does seem to preclude a lot of people.. which is my point. 

No. Your point is invalid. Please reflect and correct.

[Varysblackfyre321]

4 hours ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

An admonition to do better regarding one doesn't preclude us from trying to be better in our behavior about both. 

Though pretending it is does seem an easy out for people who’re hostile to any challenge to behavior they recognize as morally permissible or want to pretend is unchangble.

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321

[Varysblackfyre321]

8 hours ago, Raja said:

Sigh. Does this seem right?

It’d be nice if the king can say Don’t arrest people for protesting his special day. But you can’t expect such respect for democracy  from a man who thinks he’s a divine right to political power.

[Spockydog]

Tory vice-chair Lee Anderson says anti-monarchists should leave UK

Quote

 

The Conservative party’s deputy chair, Lee Anderson, has said that anti-monarchist campaigners should emigrate rather than use their right to free speech to protest against the coronation of Charles III.

The comments followed the arrest of a number of demonstrators at the king’s coronation, including Graham Smith, the chief executive of the country’s largest republican pressure group, Republic, which was formed in 1983.

The police have been accused of a heavy-handed approach to the protesters after the arrests but Anderson expressed his personal frustration at the dissent by about 2,000 people around Trafalgar Square.

He tweeted: “Not My King? If you do not wish to live in a country that has a monarchy the solution is not to turn up with your silly boards. The solution is to emigrate.”

 

This cunt clearly doesn't understand irony.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Spockydog

[Pebble thats Stubby]

As a woman I can tell you there is a differance between saying someone looks Hot to saying someone looks really nice in that outfit.  One is sexulising how they look, the other is a general comment.  If you are unsure of the differance just think a bit about saying a seven year old girl looks hot.

 

Now one comment on someones hotness in a particular occasion is IMO not a problem espeically when in situations where we are supposed to notice their hotness (and not as much how well dressed they are)  eg Steve Rogers grabbing that Helecopter in Civil War.   Penny was just doing her job and yes totally wants people (I assume) to think she looks nice, but she may not want people learing at her.  Again if its just one comment its not really a problem,  if more people make comments or comments are regularly made about other people as well it can get problematic as it changes the culture and can make people uncomfortable.

I don't belive the line was crossed this time, but you where heading in that direction.   it is something to be aware of, and perhaps consider not sexulising people when paying them a complitment (then you will be in no dager of crossing the line)

 

I have been around a group of men who happened on some photos on a company website with lots of women on it, and the conversation then was all about which ones where hot and which one not.   there was no - "I'd bang that" phrases.  I can tell you it did make me very uncomfortable.

[Spockydog]

 

[The Anti-Targ]

The question for me is, now that Penny Mordaunt's public profile seems to have shot up because she dressed well and didn't muck up her role in the coronation, does she become the favourite to topple Rishi before or after the general election? And will Rishi be toppled before or after (assuming a Labour victory of course) the general election?

[Fragile Bird]

I know some of you will hate this, but I just saw an article about the fact the music performed at the coronation was recorded (of course) and released for sale the same day. Since the music was absolutely spectacular, it’s well worth listening to. And you don’t even have to watch any of the ceremony.

I assume it’s all on You Tube already.

[dog-days]

4 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The question for me is, now that Penny Mordaunt's public profile seems to have shot up because she dressed well and didn't muck up her role in the coronation, does she become the favourite to topple Rishi before or after the general election? And will Rishi be toppled before or after (assuming a Labour victory of course) the general election?

I'd be surprised if there were any serious challenges to Sunak now. The drubbing the Tory party took in the local elections was so bad, and even if the MPs won't say so openly, they'll know it's because they've reached the end of the line in this electoral cycle; the public is sick of them and changing the PM won't change that. Sunak will at least bring things to a close with a modicum of style and a slight aroma of thousand-pound-a-bottle aftershave;  a good-mannered Charon. 

Mordaunt is unlikely to want to be PM for a few months just so that she can oversee her party losing power. However, she's well placed to be the next Tory Leader of the Opposition. 

For now, I'd guess there'll be some more corruption scandals as MPs stuff their pockets while they can. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by dog-days

[Derfel Cadarn]

4 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The question for me is, now that Penny Mordaunt's public profile seems to have shot up because she dressed well and didn't muck up her role in the coronation, does she become the favourite to topple Rishi before or after the general election? And will Rishi be toppled before or after (assuming a Labour victory of course) the general election?

After the next election, possibly. Ironic how she has a renewed interest in her as leader because she…

held a sword. Did we learn nothing from Monty Python and the Holy Grail??

Edited May 8, 2023 by Derfel Cadarn

[BigFatCoward]

6 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

After the next election, possibly. Ironic how she is a renewed interest in her as leader because she…

held a sword. Did we learn nothing from Monty Python and the Holy Grail??

Is it not just that she looks vaguely human compared to the rest? 

[Maltaran]

5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The question for me is, now that Penny Mordaunt's public profile seems to have shot up because she dressed well and didn't muck up her role in the coronation, does she become the favourite to topple Rishi before or after the general election? And will Rishi be toppled before or after (assuming a Labour victory of course) the general election?

After, because none of the challengers will want to be in charge of losing it.