US Politics: Be Careful Out There

[Quijote Light]

5 minutes ago, Zorral said:

AR-15s.  Is that good enuff 4 ya?

That is a type of gun. I’m not trying to be an asshole, but when your opposition’s bread and butter is mis-defining/re-defining words and outright lying, I think it is important to be as accurate and honest as possible in contrast. 

[Zorral]

Quote

.... Mr. Santos, 34, pleaded not guilty to all charges at a hearing in federal court on Long Island on Wednesday afternoon. He will be released from custody on a $500,000 bond that was secured by three individuals, whose identities are not public. ....

Quote

.... Joseph Murray, a former candidate for Queens district attorney, is representing Santos. Before the hearing, Murray told reporters that Santos was "not running from anything." ....

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/05/10/nyregion/george-santos-charges-news

5 minutes ago, Quijote Light said:

it is important to be as accurate and honest as possible in contrast. 

The great majority are.  Check out the info with a quick bitty google. Which ones are not? Clue: they are almost all used for HUNTING.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Zorral

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

I just learned a tragic fact.  The lead that makes up heads etc. of bullets -- when they enter the body, even if the wound(s) isn't/aren't lethal, the bullet head shatters, into the most miniscule bits, that cannot be removed.  Thus the victim of the shooting becomes a victim of lead poisoning.  Women who have received and survived these wounds are told not to have children for they will not be able to carry the fetus to term.

Listening to 1-A this morning?  I didn’t know about that before this morning either…

[Maltaran]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

.

Afaik, the bullets that shatter and stay in the target are right now the preferred ones, because it minimizes the risk of stray bullets exiting your targets body and injuring bystanders.

Probably a topic our gun owners are more familiar with. 

They’re preferred for police and hunting but explicitly prohibited for use in war

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_bullet

[Zorral]

31 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Listening to 1-A this morning?  I didn’t know about that before this morning either…

Ya, except I listened this afternoon.  It says again so much about this insane thing with gunz -- bullets intended for people are made to kill them even if they don't kill them outright.  But we need copper for the bullets that kill animals intended to be eaten.  Guess which sort outnumbers the others by millions? Very few gun owners actually hunt.  Almost all of of them -- it's because fun and / or to pretend they have great power and great big dix.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Zorral

[Corvinus85]

Made it 10 seconds into the CNN Town Hall clown show. ugh 

[Mindwalker]

Ratings must be great right after the trial.

[Tywin et al.]

30 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Made it 10 seconds into the CNN Town Hall clown show. ugh 

You could watch CNN for 10 seconds in general? But I guess Leo only last with Robbie for 11 seconds so who is comparing notes? 

Hearing the cliff notes though, it needs to be said in no uncertain terms, Donald Trump is a brain dead moron who would happily lower all of us for his own gain. If you still support him, enjoy explaining that to your kids and grandkids in the not too distant future. 

Rough, but accurate:

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[Argonath Diver]

He also doubled down on his Access Hollywood brag about being able to assault any woman he wants to because they all let him. And the crowd ate it up like he was Johnny Fucking Carson. I saw women in the crowd laughing. What in the living hell are these people brainwashed by? Does Trump need to actually rape their daughters before they are shocked out of this idol worship? My apologies for the incredible bluntness of that last line, but I truly cannot fathom the bigotry fueling like 130 million Americans.

I wish I were Christian so I could be confident in the eternal hellfire this protodemon is doomed to.

[TrackerNeil]

On 5/9/2023 at 10:23 AM, Phylum of Alexandria said:

That said, I think the general problems that you mention about Democrats sounding elitist and out of touch has some truth to it as well. The party seems more and more like the party of college educated academics and technocrats. I think Biden's impulse in placing more emphasis on working class concerns is generally a good one, but there's a chance it's too late. Many disaffected blue collar voters think that their concerns are no longer a priority, and they've fallen down the rabbithole of grievance soothsaying.

Some of this perhaps can't be helped, but there are aspects in which lefty wonks have needlessly contributed to this perception. This article from the early COVID days is a great example.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/10/2/21493933/covid-19-vaccine-black-latino-priority-access

It sounds dry and intellectual, but it's actually quite stupid. The author openly acknowledges that race is but a correlate of a more central factor in health vulnerability: socioeconomic status. Yet rather than propose we tackle systemic racism by implementing a vaccination system prioritizing low-income communities, the author proposes a race/place-based priority system. This is of a piece with a larger trend; activists and thought leaders on the left leaving class issues in the background--even when it's staring them in the face. 

I think this is a valid criticism of the Democratic Party..and of Vox, to be frank.

I think we on the left get caught up in these narratives that demand we assume that every problem is worse for "marginalized people"--this is almost always defined solely in terms of identity--and they often are! However, when all you see is identity..hammers, nails.

The Dobbs decision is a good example. I heard many a journalist assert that abortion bans disproportionately affect "the LGBTQIA+ community", and I wound up scratching my head. Abortion bans suck, definitely, but they don't disproportionately affect gay men. However, since a necessary part of modern journalism is framing issues with regard to the marginalized, we get these dumb narratives. Now, if these narratives were simply silly, I'd just ignore them. However, as Phylum noted, they can be actively harmful, by alienating people who'd otherwise be open to joining our coalition.

Of course, some people think coalitions shouldn't include people who don't properly prioritize identity, to which I can only say that if everyone in your coalition agrees on everything, you aren't in a coalition.

[Week]

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

Made it 10 seconds into the CNN Town Hall clown show. ugh 

Hosted by former DailyCaller/Tucker Carlson propagandist. Absolutely vile all around.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Good thing CNN learnt their lesson from 2015/16. 

Yes, give that orange gremlin a platform with his cult cheering him on in front of a tv audience, what could go wrong? 

I hope their ratings were good...

[Tywin et al.]

To me this is still a work of art. 

ETA: Bummer, the internet has scrubbed it. Old links don't work. However if you use the same search terms you get pics of people around him doing white power salutes, which is also fitting. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[Mindwalker]

Saw a few clips - can't stomach more - and wow. The host was terrible. Par for the course for US cable tv and expected, but still.

Lots of free advertising on all channels ofc.

ETA: Oh, and I *was* right, he did use the "they said I didn't rape her" approach. Yay.

...

Trump Mocked E. Jean Carroll Live on CNN. The Audience Laughed.

She had established in court that Trump had sexually abused her and that he had falsely damaged her reputation.

But by evening, Trump was back in front of a national audience, proving the power of his word—and of CNN’s megaphone—against hers. E. Jean Carroll will receive $5 million in damages for having her name dragged through the mud. But what is the price for being the butt of the leading Republican presidential candidate’s jokes? ...

Trump’s disrespect for women this evening was palpable and stunning. The audience’s approval was even scarier.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/05/trump-cnn-town-hall-e-jean-carroll-live-on-cnn-the-audience-laughed/

Edited May 11, 2023 by Mindwalker

[Phylum of Alexandria]

8 hours ago, TrackerNeil said:

I think this is a valid criticism of the Democratic Party..and of Vox, to be frank.

Vox has got plenty of smart articles, but they've got some real clunkers too, often when they're dealing with one of these hot-button identity issues. (They're also not nearly as good without Ezra Klein and Matt Yglesias.)

The Democratic Party is certainly not immune to this stuff. Interestingly enough, during the 2020 virtual Democratic National Convention, Biden and Harris described the harm from COVID much better than Vox did. They said it can potentially affect anyone, but people in poor communities will be most adversely affected, and in the US those are often communities of color.

That framing is a lot more honest about what the data says, a lot more humane about everyone affected, and a lot smarter in terms of uniting rather than dividing. 

Unfortunately, when it came to police violence, they went the strictly racial justice route. The data here are less clear as to what's going on with respect to race. Like COVID, it's relevant to note that poor communities in US cities are often communities of color, but is that more of a third-factor risk like with COVID, or something more directly tied to race? And what do the data look like in suburban and rural areas? I don't know if there's enough data on this topic to say anything with confidence, but here's what I do know: police militarization is a general problem that we all share, and framing the problem exclusively in terms of racism is an injustice to the white families who also lost someone to police violence. They should have tackled the issue like they did COVID, but they botched it.

We've gotta stop treating people like statistics, and statistics like people. It's pseudo-intellectual, morally dubious, and often counterproductive politically speaking.

But the main reason the Democrats do this at all is to appease one faction of their coalition: the very vocal activist base, the nuttiest of which got a lot more influential with the rise of social media. There are some indications that people are starting to ignore this nuttiest swath. I hope it proves to be the death knell of their time in the sun. We're supposed to be the Smart Ones, and we've got to get smarter. 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Phylum of Alexandria

[DMC]

Just when you thought CNN couldn't get any dumber...

I mean seriously what the hell were they thinking?  And not that I care, but way to put one of your up and coming anchors in a situation that will necessarily embarrass her.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

tbf to the host, that was a no-win situation for any moderator (save for the late Jerry Springer maybe).

The responsibility lies entirely with the CNN executives, who thought this was a good idea,

The medium is the message. To borrow a phrase.

[Larry of the Lawn]

58 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Vox has got plenty of smart articles, but they've got some real clunkers too, often when they're dealing with one of these hot-button identity issues. (They're also not nearly as good without Ezra Klein and Matt Yglesias.)

The Democratic Party is certainly not immune to this stuff. Interestingly enough, during the 2020 virtual Democratic National Convention, Biden and Harris described the harm from COVID much better than Vox did. They said it can potentially affect anyone, but people in poor communities will be most adversely affected, and in the US those are often communities of color.

That framing is a lot more honest about what the data says, a lot more humane about everyone affected, and a lot smarter in terms of uniting rather than dividing. 

Unfortunately, when it came to police violence, they went the strictly racial justice route. The data here are less clear as to what's going on with respect to race. Like COVID, it's relevant to note that poor communities in US cities are often communities of color, but is that more of a third-factor risk like with COVID, or something more directly tied to race? And what do the data look like in suburban and rural areas? I don't know if there's enough data on this topic to say anything with confidence, but here's what I do know: police militarization is a general problem that we all share, and framing the problem exclusively in terms of racism is an injustice to the white families who also lost someone to police violence. They should have tackled the issue like they did COVID, but they botched it.

We've gotta stop treating people like statistics, and statistics like people. It's pseudo-intellectual, morally dubious, and often counterproductive politically speaking.

But the main reason the Democrats do this at all is to appease one faction of their coalition: the very vocal activist base, the nuttiest of which got a lot more influential with the rise of social media. There are some indications that people are starting to ignore this nuttiest swath. I hope it proves to be the death knell of their time in the sun. We're supposed to be the Smart Ones, and we've got to get smarter. 

 

We have decades of data showing that police disproportionally commit violence against non-whites.  There is major racism baked into all of the criminal justice system, whether you want to look at length of sentencing, arrests, convictions, how traffic stops escalate, use of force, etc.    

I agree identity politics suck but this goes back a long time and has been a consistent and measurable theme in pretty much all aspects of the justice system.  It's not unfortunate to go the racial angle here because it's real and it's pervasive.  

Edited May 11, 2023 by Larry of the Lake

[Phylum of Alexandria]

Just now, Larry of the Lake said:

We have decades of data showing that police disproportionally commit violence against non-whites.  There is major racism baked onto of criminal justice system, whether you want to look at length of sentencing, arrests, convictions, how traffic stops escalate, use of force, etc.    

I agree identity politics suck but this goes back a long time and has been a consistent and measurable theme in pretty much all aspects of the justice system.  It's not unfortunate to go the racial angle here because it's real and it's pervasive.  

I was talking specifically about the issue of police violence, not whether there's a comprehensive body of evidence supporting the reality of racism. I'm not disputing the presence of racism; I'm not even saying that anti-black racism plays no role in police violence.

Instead, I'm saying that:

1) We don't quite know what the problem looks like in terms of data across regions and other factors. For instance, a plausible hypothesis is that police violence is greater toward whites in rural areas, as they make up the majority of poor people there, and so take on a stereotype of being more likely to commit crime. It would be a race-region-SES interaction. Maybe the data would say something else. My point is that the issue remains to be investigated thoroughly to truly understand the nature of the problem. We won't be able to even think of credible solutions if we can't properly diagnose what the problem is.

2) If Black Americans are at greater risk for police violence, it's still a statistical tendency. Like COVID was, police militarization is everyone's problem. We can acknowledge that some communities tend to be affected more than others without completely erasing the injustice that has befallen others--such as white families mourning their loved ones who were killed by over-militarized police officers. Statistics are not people.

3) Not only is this pseudo-intellectual and inhumane, it's bad coalitional politics, and so it gives you less power to be able to change anything, even if you knew what needed to be done.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

27 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

We have decades of data showing that police disproportionally commit violence against non-whites.  There is major racism baked into all of the criminal justice system, whether you want to look at length of sentencing, arrests, convictions, how traffic stops escalate, use of force, etc.    

I agree identity politics suck but this goes back a long time and has been a consistent and measurable theme in pretty much all aspects of the justice system.  It's not unfortunate to go the racial angle here because it's real and it's pervasive.  

Yes.  That is undisputable.

But, politically, if Law Enforcement abuse of power impacts everyone it has more rhetorical impact.  It’s not nice but if you want to eliminate qualified immunity and reform law enforcement you need suburban middle class voters pushing because they see themselves threatened too.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Ser Scot A Ellison