dog-days Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 12 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Chekalov was reportedly also on that plane. He was the head of Wagner Security Service. Bets on Prigozhin's last words being "you're fired!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loge Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 10 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Yeah, nevermind the official report (co-authored by Polish and Russian investigators), because the folks from piss party with the remaining half of the clown twins is promoting some conspiracy theory, they regularly use for political gain. Wikipedia link. Just scroll down, they have links to the official reports in Polish and English. Long story short. Unsafe low visibility approach by the pilots caused this crash. Can't find a link right now, but from what I remember, the pilot (an Air Force captain) was bullied into the reckless landing attempt by his big shot passengers, particularly the Air Force Chief of Staff. It was the Poles, not the Russians, who wanted the truth suppressed and blame it on the pilot alone to avoid embarrassment. Darzin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Loge said: Can't find a link right now, but from what I remember, the pilot (an Air Force captain) was bullied into the reckless landing attempt by his big shot passengers, particularly the Air Force Chief of Staff. It was the Poles, not the Russians, who wanted the truth suppressed and blame it on the pilot alone to avoid embarrassment. You fly the plane, you are in charge. (Not) Flying to the alternate airport was the decission for the pilot. Arguably not a good career move, but crashing the plane wasn't a good career move either. Ultimately it was his decission to try that difficult landing at an airfield he was not familiar with. Edited August 24, 2023 by A Horse Named Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loge Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 11 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: You fly the plane, you are in charge. (Not) Flying to the alternate airport was the decission for the pilot. Arguably not a good career move, but crashing the plane wasn't a good career move either. Ultimately it was his decission to try that difficult landing at an airfield he was not familiar with. True, but tell that to an old general who grew up in the Soviet / Warsaw Pact system. Taking no for an answer from a mere captain probably isn't something they're accustomed to. Of course the pilot should have stood up to them, but that may have ended his career, too. This seems to be a wider issue in post-Warsaw Pact forces, BTW. The older, and more senior folks still follow the old rules. Anyway, the story may have been retracted, as I can't find a good source anymore. It definitely was run by a reputable source a couple of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 46 minutes ago, dog-days said: Bets on Prigozhin's last words being "you're fired!"? No idea, if he was still conscious long enough to form and verbalize that thought. Part of me likes to think that they were alive and conscious on their way down (just because they were such quality human beings). Anyway, the Wagner Security Service are the folks that intimidate and harass journalists and lawyers, and police the Wagner Mercs (basically, that they don't talk and are loyal to the course). I don't think checking for Russian AA defenses was part of his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: No idea, if he was still conscious long enough to form and verbalize that thought. Part of me likes to think that they were alive and conscious on their way down (just because they were such quality human beings). Anyway, the Wagner Security Service are the folks that intimidate and harass journalists and lawyers, and police the Wagner Mercs (basically, that they don't talk and are loyal to the course). I don't think checking for Russian AA defenses was part of his job. There’s video in twitter of the plane crashing - it was falling for a good whike, spinning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 Ukraine raids Crimea by sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loge Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 Found a source after all, albeit in German: https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/unglueck-von-smolensk-russischer-absturzbericht-empoert-kaczynski-bruder-a-739154.html Quote Schuld treffe den polnischen Kommandeur Andrzej Blasik, der mit 0,6 Promille Alkohol im Blut trotz Warnungen der russischen Flugüberwachung die Piloten zur Landung gezwungen habe, sagte die Luftfahrtexpertin Tatjana Anodina bei der Veröffentlichung des russischen Abschlussberichts. Blasik habe laut Stimmenrekorder direkt im Cockpit Druck auf die Piloten ausgeübt, sagte Anodina. Auch Kaczynskis Protokollchef habe sich vorschriftswidrig in der Pilotenkanzel aufgehalten. Darzin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 3 hours ago, dog-days said: Bets on Prigozhin's last words being "you're fired!"? I expect his last words were some variant of: "Oh. Fuck. Me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 I'm not one to enjoy other peoples' misery, but (and you know what they say about people who use the word "but") If Prigo's last words were along the lines of "Argh" I would not be in the slightest bit upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorn Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said: Ukraine raids Crimea by sea Huge news, which got overshadowed by Prigozhin's and Utkin's denazification. The targets of the raid were Russian Nebo-M radar complex and EW systems. Nebo-M is supposedly capable of detecting stealth planes and it covered southern Ukraine with its range. Probably the most valuable single Russian military target that was taken out in this war. In addition to taking out the S-400 and S-300 systems in Crimea yesterday, it looks like preparation for the arrival of F-16s, and (considering the location) for a potential crossing of the Dnipro. Winterfell is Burning, dog-days, Prince of the North and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 Peace through power? Corvinus85 and JGP 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 24, 2023 Author Share Posted August 24, 2023 24 minutes ago, Werthead said: Peace through power? The irony of Roger Waters speaking out against supporting Ukraine becomes more apparent by the moment. :facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 57 minutes ago, Werthead said: Peace through power? My boy Kane literally killed Stalin, so... it could just as well be that timeline... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: The irony of Roger Waters speaking out against supporting Ukraine becomes more apparent by the moment. :facepalm: The rest of Pink Floyd is still pretty cool though. All but Waters reunited to make this song and video a year ago. David Gilmour has connections to Ukraine through his daughter-in-law, a Ukrainian born artist https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-61037080 Edited August 24, 2023 by SpaceChampion Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 Highly, highly recommend that if you can't read this New Yorker article https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/28/elon-musks-shadow-rule to listen to this https://www.npr.org/2023/08/24/1195463008/ronan-farrow-says-elon-musk-has-become-an-arbiter-of-the-war-in-ukraine dog-days 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 Lol maarsen, JGP, Spockydog and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 51 minutes ago, Zorral said: Highly, highly recommend that if you can't read this New Yorker article https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/28/elon-musks-shadow-rule to listen to this https://www.npr.org/2023/08/24/1195463008/ronan-farrow-says-elon-musk-has-become-an-arbiter-of-the-war-in-ukraine Not bothering to click/read it. I just assume that Farrow arrived at the conclusion, that Musk (via star link) plays a decissive role in the conflict, and that he has cut some of his support to Ukraine (star link coverage). If so, nothing new. But welcome to the party Ronan. Did he add anything new, or was that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darzin Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 23 hours ago, Relic said: Russian in charge of the Russian investigation? Putin. Nevermind that the airport was closed due to bad weather. Believe what you want, I guess. Might as well believe today's aircraft malfunction was totally inevitable, as well. The Polish leadership pressured the pilot to land anyway despite the weather. This was 100% a case of a pilot doing unsafe maneuvers to please his boss and feeling the pressure of the VIPs in the back. The plane left Poland, there was an alternate airport available, it's really hard to see how the Russians could plausibly be blamed for the crash. Here is an exhaustive write up on the details. Spockydog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 2 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Not bothering to click/read it. I just assume that Farrow arrived at the conclusion, that Musk (via star link) plays a decissive role in the conflict, and that he has cut some of his support to Ukraine (star link coverage). If so, nothing new. But welcome to the party Ronan. Did he add anything new, or was that it? He added quite a bit that was new - quite a bit of how much asskissing the US has to do to Musk to get him to do anything vaguely human, how worried Musk is about his stuff being used for military purposes, how much actual control Musk has about major parts of the US infrastructure and tech capacity that is...not ideal. A Horse Named Stranger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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