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MCU - This Thread Wasn’t Made For You

DaveSumm

By DaveSumm,
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baxus Council Member

baxus

Posted
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55 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

The presence of a cliff-hanger isn't sufficient communication of the show being more than one season? Or have I misunderstood the complaint? There was a cliff-hanger, ergo, the show was going to be more than one season.

If I have to watch multiple seasons in order to understand the quality of the show, I'm not going to get that far. I don't have time to watch multiple seasons of sub-par series just in case it turns out to be great in the end.

And ending seasons with cliffhangers doesn't mean much in a world where shows get cancelled all the time.

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Rhom Council Member

Rhom

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19 minutes ago, baxus said:

If I have to watch multiple seasons in order to understand the quality of the show, I'm not going to get that far. I don't have time to watch multiple seasons of sub-par series just in case it turns out to be great in the end.

And ending seasons with cliffhangers doesn't mean much in a world where shows get cancelled all the time.

And yet many of the greatest shows of all time were weak in the first season.  Cheers never would have made it under later standards.  :dunno: 

 

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Heartofice Council Member

Heartofice

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31 minutes ago, baxus said:

If I have to watch multiple seasons in order to understand the quality of the show, I'm not going to get that far. I don't have time to watch multiple seasons of sub-par series just in case it turns out to be great in the end.

And ending seasons with cliffhangers doesn't mean much in a world where shows get cancelled all the time.

The MCU just has a 'consume next product' problem. They put more effort into selling the next thing than making the current thing good.

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baxus Council Member

baxus

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37 minutes ago, Rhom said:

And yet many of the greatest shows of all time were weak in the first season.  Cheers never would have made it under later standards.  :dunno: 

Haven't seen Cheers, I was a kid at the time and had better things to do. Any other examples?

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Myrddin Council Member

Myrddin

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Too many of the Marvel shows would've been better movies, which adds to the chore of keeping up.

Even the "good" ones feel slow at some point during their seasons, including huge favorites like Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Loki. I enjoy the characters having time to breathe, but it'd be nice if the stories drove the episode length rather than the current normal. We've gone from 22-24 episodes a year to 13 to 8 and now 6.  Loki seasons 1 & 2 could've fit combined into an 8 episode limited series. Or 10. 

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Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Council Member

Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II

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44 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

The MCU just has a 'consume next product' problem. They put more effort into selling the next thing than making the current thing good.

Ya I gave up trying to keep track way back when The Avengers came out in 2012 itself and after that film it just became impossible to see the new ones without seeing the older ones. 

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Mr. Chatywin et al. Council Member

Mr. Chatywin et al.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, baxus said:

Haven't seen Cheers, I was a kid at the time and had better things to do. Any other examples?

The Simpsons' first season was just okay and then seasons 2-8 (or through 10) are peak TV. 

That said, I agree with a lot of the comments I'm seeing over the last few pages, Disney is pumping out too many MCU shows and movies without caring that much about the quality of it. They hit sometimes, but a lot of it is meh and they expect you to watch it all so everything makes sense. I'm pretty much out at this point. 

Edited by Tywin et al.
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Arakasi Council Member

Arakasi

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1 hour ago, baxus said:

Haven't seen Cheers, I was a kid at the time and had better things to do. Any other examples?

How about Babylon 5 and Star Trek the next generation. Both had weak and inconsistent season ones but turned into great shows. There was promise in both though despite the clunkiness and both ended up great.

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Heartofice Council Member

Heartofice

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1 minute ago, Arakasi said:

How about Babylon 5 and Star Trek the next generation. Both had weak and inconsistent season ones but turned into great shows. There was promise in both though despite the clunkiness and both ended up great.

There are quite a few aren't there. Community, Parks and Rec, The office. I can think of others like Breaking Bad, Black Sails, Seinfeld. With comedies especially it seemed to take a season or two to really get into a groove. 

Marvel shows are not series however. They are mini-series, or in reality, over long movies. I don't think any of the MCU shows has a plan to run over multiple seasons, it would be too expensive and they couldn't keep the stars. 

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Corvinus85 Council Member

Corvinus85

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There are so many 90s and early 2000s shows that wouldn't have made it past their 1st season today because of studio expectations. Granted, when the studio pours a boatload of money in the initial phase, they have no choice but to power on through, and maybe just replace writers - see Rings of Power.

The MCU would do well to remember the show they never loved, but fans did - Agents of SHIELD. It had a strong run with 7 seasons, and yes season 1 was saved by linking it to The Winter Soldier events, but eventually it found its footing. The small connections it had with the movie verse became just small gifts for the fans later, they weren't necessary for the show's narrative.

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Heartofice Council Member

Heartofice

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3 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

The MCU would do well to remember the show they never loved, but fans did - Agents of SHIELD. It had a strong run with 7 seasons, and yes season 1 was saved by linking it to The Winter Soldier events, but eventually it found its footing. The small connections it had with the movie verse became just small gifts for the fans later, they weren't necessary for the show's narrative.

I was never a huge fan of Agents of SHIELD, though I did try. I liked that it felt as if it was the a sort of sideline to the main story, not really affecting it, but giving it context. Even the Netflix shows made small hints of being in the same world, which added to them. That formula worked, shame they tried to move away from it.

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Kalbear Council Member

Kalbear

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, baxus said:

Haven't seen Cheers, I was a kid at the time and had better things to do. Any other examples?

ST:NG is probably a very good older example. More recently GOT season 1 was fine but not amazing, Succession was probably not amazing until later, Person of Interest really didn't get going until later and honestly B5 was almost certainly not that great in its first season. 

Or Buffy! 

Edited by Kalbear
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Caligula_K3 Council Member

Caligula_K3

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Every Joss Whedon show but Firefly has a mediocre-to-bad first season, which usually only starts getting better towards the end of it. Buffy, Angel, Dollhouse, Agents of Shield, etc...

Then there's the Star Treks - not just TNG, but also Deep Space 9.

Comedies often have a problem finding their feet in the first season as well, as others have pointed out in this thread. Seinfeld (I find it hard to rewatch the first two seasons, to be honest), Parks and Rec, etc...

And then there are lots of shows that aren't "bad" when they start, but take a season or two to become great. Some recent prestige shows that come to mind are Black Sails and Halt and Catch Fire. Hell, even the Leftovers; I enjoyed the first season, though I know many dislike it. But I LOVED seasons 2 and 3.

Something that internet discourse about media tends to forget is that not everything can be a masterpiece from day one.

 

 

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IlyaP Council Member

IlyaP

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, baxus said:

Haven't seen Cheers, I was a kid at the time and had better things to do. Any other examples?

Star Trek: TNG, Babylon 5, Farscape, Star Trek: Deep Space 9, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, The Wire, Oz, Treme, West Wing, Deadwood, Blackadder, Red Dwarf, Round the Twist, 30 Rock, Community, The Expanse, Fringe, Blake's 7, The Critic, all good shows that got increasingly better with each season. 

Edited by IlyaP
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Deadlines? What Deadlines? Council Member

Deadlines? What Deadlines?

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Ahem, @JGP

I said if The Marvels crosses $750 mil WW ($380 mil down from Captain Marvel) I’d eat my hat. 

Holy shit I wasn’t even close. 4 days of domestic box office numbers and The Marvels is down $13 million on The Flash FFS. There’s something going on here beyond just “anti-woke” nonsense or bad word of mouth. 

It’ll be a miracle if this thing touches $300 million WW. And if reshoots did actually balloon the production budget to $270 mil (as has been reported), this is a legit, massive bomb; on the order of Green Lantern. 

BTW, it’s true that I wasn’t a fan of the first Cap. Marvel movie, but I take no pleasure in this and I’m not gloating. I would never actively root for a movie to fail. This is just… wow. 

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/custom-comparisons/Marvels-The-(2023)/Flash-The#tab=day_by_day_comparison

 

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