Pat Rothfuss XVIII: Whereof one cannot speak...

[Gaston de Foix]

Discuss! 

[Gaston de Foix]

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So it’s okay to diss Rothfuss but not Martin and Lynch for taking the same amount of time in not releasing their next book, and in the case of Martin: releasing plenty of side content as well, one of which was actually a condensed version of a book he had already published ?  I’ll read Pats latest Novella cause I enjoy his work, but you guys seriously need to stop taunting the guy, especially since he was going through mental health issues. 

 

I think, by definition, everyone on this forum is disappointed and angry that Martin hasn't published his next books.  I recall plenty of carping on this forum and even more invective elsewhere.  But: 

(a) the show has already given us a (fairly terrible) ending to the story.

(b) Martin has published plenty, and while this is masterwork, he has a long track-record of delivering (a point Poobah has made on previous iterations of this thread);  it's different when its your first work and you say the trilogy is already finished. 

(c) Pat has admitted to lying (for promotional purposes) about the status of his work and done things like share photos of a massive stack of papers that appears to be the Doors of Stone manuscript only for us to learn years later that the editor hasn't seen a word.  He's entitled to support and compassion and understanding for his mental health issues.  But lying to your fans is not OK.  

As far as Lynch is concerned, he's just a much smaller fish.  But, yeah, a lot of stuff he's said about his books has turned out to be untrue.  I've not followed his public pronouncements closely enough to accuse him of lying or misleading.  But it wouldn't shock me.  

Maybe there is a double standard? A little bit, sure.  But it may also be because Rothfuss is pretentious (and poetic) and fun and easy to mock. 

But for me it's also because I'm holding him to a higher standard.  When WMF came out in 2011 I studied it (and re-read book 1) with the care and devotion Madonna devoted to the Kaballah.  This was way before the Tor re-read.  and I discovered that the novels were really icebergs.  There's so much buried underneath there.  Lynch is an outstanding comic and excellent fantasy writer.  But he's just not in the same league.  

[baxus]

34 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

So it’s okay to diss Rothfuss but not Martin and Lynch for taking the same amount of time in not releasing their next book, and in the case of Martin: releasing plenty of side content as well, one of which was actually a condensed version of a book he had already published ?  I’ll read Pats latest Novella cause I enjoy his work, but you guys seriously need to stop taunting the guy, especially since he was going through mental health issues. 

Yes, it is ok to diss Rothfuss becase he explicitly stated he has already finished the trilogy when book one was initially published and he fervently used that as a marketing tool (and as a diss to authors who are taking their time writing their series, if we're honest).

On top of that, he streams himself playing video games and freaks out when questioned about book 3, makes false promises to attract donations to his charity etc.

I hope the difference is a bit clearer now.

[Rhom]

2 hours ago, baxus said:

makes false promises to attract donations to his charity etc.

 

This is the part that got me.

[Lord Patrek]

Has anyone watched the Twitch interviews with other authors? Anything good come out of those?

[IlyaP]

6 hours ago, Lord Patrek said:

Has anyone watched the Twitch interviews with other authors? Anything good come out of those?

What, like learning if they're doing Scarface levels of coke?

[Werthead]

Scott Lynch has had significant health issues which he has discussed in extreme detail many times over the years. GRRM has worked on ASoIaF material and has produced updates on the status of the work, confirming that he is working on it (a claim verified by others, such as Ty Franck and his editors), if not continuously (re-releasing a condensed version of extant book is perhaps a tad unnecessary, but then he didn't actually work on that).

Rothfuss started off his writing career by lying purely for marketing purposes and has engaged in a cavalcade of WTFery ever since, reaching a recent crescendo of entirely needless deception.

[Lord Patrek]

12 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

What, like learning if they're doing Scarface levels of coke?

I'll take that as a no, then. . . 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

13 hours ago, Werthead said:

Rothfuss started off his writing career by lying purely for marketing purposes and has engaged in a cavalcade of WTFery ever since, reaching a recent crescendo of entirely needless deception

The all star DoS chapter reading stretch goal… (has he even mentioned that after more than a year?)

[Jussi]

On 8/30/2023 at 3:30 PM, Gaston de Foix said:

I think, by definition, everyone on this forum is disappointed and angry that Martin hasn't published his next books.

I have never been angry because of the long wait to TWoW. Dissapointed, yes, but not angry. ASoIaF is my favourite ongoing fantasy book series.

 

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(a) the show has already given us a (fairly terrible) ending to the story.

I haven't watched Game of Thrones after season four, so I don't know anything about the show's ending to the story.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

5 minutes ago, Jussi said:

 

I haven't watched Game of Thrones after season four, so I don't know anything about the show's ending to the story.

Fuck that takes a lot of self discipline, kudos man ! How’d you avoid spoilers all these years ?

[Jussi]

37 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Fuck that takes a lot of self discipline, kudos man ! How’d you avoid spoilers all these years ?

I don't think it is that hard. I just haven't read anything GoT related since autumn 2014. I'm not on social media - maybe that makes it easier.

[Gaston de Foix]

3 hours ago, Jussi said:

I have never been angry because of the long wait to TWoW. Dissapointed, yes, but not angry. ASoIaF is my favourite ongoing fantasy book series.

 

I haven't watched Game of Thrones after season four, so I don't know anything about the show's ending to the story.

Yes, fair enough.  I stand corrected.  Although there's no contradiction between ASOIAF being your favourite series and being angry that the next volume has not been published.  

2 hours ago, Jussi said:

I don't think it is that hard. I just haven't read anything GoT related since autumn 2014. I'm not on social media - maybe that makes it easier.

That's very impressive. 

In an important sense, you are the perfect test audience (assuming you like Rothfuss' books which maybe you don't) whether you feel similarly or differently about him and the Kingkiller Chronicles.  

[Myrddin]

5 hours ago, Jussi said:

I don't think it is that hard. I just haven't read anything GoT related since autumn 2014. I'm not on social media - maybe that makes it easier.

You totally missed Ned coming ack as the Night King. Sean Bean really killed the part.

[IlyaP]

2 hours ago, Myrddin said:

Sean Bean really killed the part.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA, PART KILLS SEAN BEAN.

[IlyaP]

8 hours ago, Jussi said:

I don't think it is that hard. I just haven't read anything GoT related since autumn 2014. I'm not on social media - maybe that makes it easier.

Yeah same. I've watched a few snippets here and there, but otherwise, I'd not have known anything about it without the power of Lindsay Ellis' deeply entertaining post-mortems. It's surprisingly easy to stay spoiler-free, I've found, by simply avoiding talk about it online and among friends.

[Rorshach]

On 8/31/2023 at 7:22 PM, Gaston de Foix said:

In an important sense, you are the perfect test audience (assuming you like Rothfuss' books which maybe you don't) whether you feel similarly or differently about him and the Kingkiller Chronicles.  

Now, I'm not an ideal test person, I'd guess, but I did enjoy the first two Kingkiller books (first more than the second), and I've only watched the first season of TV GoT. 

I'm more in the "meh" camp about TWOW - I think we *might* see it, but I think it's likely we won't see the series finished, and I can live with that, even if I'd rather see the final books.

For Rothfuss, I'm more irritated. I don't think he's obliged to finish his series per se, but at the very least I'd expect him not to lie about it as often as he has. It's at a point where - even if I did like his first two - I'm not sure I'd buy a third should he ever actually release it.

[IFR]

It seems to me fair game to disparage Rothfuss, Martin, and Lynch equally for their extraordinary incompetence in producing any real material in such a incredible amount a time - whatever their own personal justifications may be. It in fact saddens me that almost the entirety of the failure of the Game of Thrones show was blamed on Benioff and Weiss; I feel like Martin should have been subject to his share of the blame too for his comical ineptitude at his job of, ya know, writing.

That said, it shouldn't go beyond that, and sadly too many fans make it personal because they have some weird sense of entitlement to works that aren't yet published.

I cannot fathom being in Martin's position, for instance, and having all that wealth, yet being insane enough to squander the twilight of my years grinding away at a series I completely lost interest in. I would be gleefully waving my middle finger at all of my fans - at least mentally. Wouldn't want to risk getting cancelled and losing money.

[Infidel]

4 hours ago, IFR said:

I cannot fathom being in Martin's position, for instance, and having all that wealth, yet being insane enough to squander the twilight of my years grinding away at a series I completely lost interest in. I would be gleefully waving my middle finger at all of my fans - at least mentally. Wouldn't want to risk getting cancelled and losing money.

"Cancelled" is quite a tell here...

[IFR]

36 minutes ago, Infidel said:

"Cancelled" is quite a tell here...

Well yeah, if you treat delusional and entitled fans with contempt then they won't give you money. Marketing yourself is important if you want to optimize the amount of money you earn.

I think the message you quote is transparent enough that finding a "tell" is merely observing the obvious.