Friends: TV Show 1994 - 2004 (Sitcoms)

[Werthead]

Malcolm in the Middle is low-key genius. Some of the episodes in that are brilliant. There was one gag somebody mentioned just the other day where Lois tells Hal to change a lightbulb whilst she's out. He goes to get a replacement lightbulb but notices the desk needs adjusting. He goes to get a hammer but realises they don't have one. He goes to drive to the store, but the car doesn't start. Lois comes home to find him with the entire engine removed from the car and asks him why the bulb's not been changed, and he yells, "what do you think I'm doing?"

I did start rewatching My Name is Earl, as I remembered really enjoying it back in the day but never watching beyond Season 1, but to my surprise I found the early episodes pretty poor. I might not continue with that. I am pressing on with Cheers but it's a bit tough going. When Cheers is on it, it's really on it and is hilarious, but there's a fair too many meh episodes inbetween those highs. Still, it must set some record for how much of it takes place on just one set and how they can keep that feeling fresh.

I just remembered Northern Exposure didn't have a laughter track either, but then that was an early entry in that "dramedy" category where it's not entirely certain it would have one.

I also wonder if the animated comedy shows (like The Simpsons) not having a laughter track influenced the decision to gradually phase out laughter tracks from live-action shows. Though ironically I recall watching animated shows from the 1960s and 1970s which did have laughter tracks, like The Flintstones and Top Cat.

[kissdbyfire]

Laughter tracks are the worst! Agree w/ you guys re MitM, it was a great show. As to animated comedy shows,I never really got into The Simpsons - please don’t stone me. But I do love me some South Park! 

Edited March 6 by kissdbyfire

[DMC]

29 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Malcolm in the Middle is low-key genius. Some of the episodes in that are brilliant. There was one gag somebody mentioned just the other day where Lois tells Hal to change a lightbulb whilst she's out. He goes to get a replacement lightbulb but notices the desk needs adjusting. He goes to get a hammer but realises they don't have one. He goes to drive to the store, but the car doesn't start. Lois comes home to find him with the entire engine removed from the car and asks him why the bulb's not been changed, and he yells, "what do you think I'm doing?"

Yeah I think this has been mentioned before, but my favorite part of that is you could 110% see Walter White doing the exact same thing.

I was a pretty big fan of My Name Is Earl.  Haven't seen it in a very long time now, but IIRC it gets better.

[hauberk]

3 hours ago, DMC said:

Yeah I think this has been mentioned before, but my favorite part of that is you could 110% see Walter White doing the exact same thing.

I was a pretty big fan of My Name Is Earl.  Haven't seen it in a very long time now, but IIRC it gets better.

I would offer up Greg Garcia’s other series Raising Hope as a recommendation. Absolutely spectacular. 

[drawkcabi]

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

When Cheers is on it, it's really on it and is hilarious, but there's a fair too many meh episodes inbetween those highs. Still, it must set some record for how much of it takes place on just one set and how they can keep that feeling fresh.

Barney Miller is such an amazing show it pains me how much it's been forgotten.

While its fashion, setting, and attitudes (on the surface, at least) are extremely 70's the topics it tackles and characters portrayed are just as relevant today, if not, more so, than they were back then.

I get more out of this series on each rewatch and it's a series I can rewatch frequently with tons of enjoyment each time.

It's amazing that like 95% of the series, takes place entirely in the precinct squad room and Barney's office! Each episode is like watching a mini stage play. You hardly ever see the plain clothes officers outside the squad room...you see them come back to the precinct and tell the story of what happened...usually bringing a caught suspect to temporarily be put in the tiny lock up cage in the same room and maybe a witness or two following. They TELL you what happened, then a lot of the times they leave, go out again and come back then TELL you what happened AGAIN. All the while the meat of the story takes place with character interactions right there. It all just happens on that one set and it is fantastic!

Plus it's got Tessio from The Godfather and Shepherd Book from Firefly!

 

I'll second admiration for Raising Hope! I really like My Name is Earl, but I like Raising Hope even more.

 

A couple series available on You Tube I often do rewatches of...a great Dennis Leary cop series comedy...The Job. This was the show he did a little bit before Rescue Me and you see A LOT of the seeds of that subsequent show in this one. Technically it's 2 seasons but the first season is only 6 episodes and the second one is like 18, I think. It's an extremely cynical show and extremely funny in that way. Where in Rescue Me was directly in the shadow of 9/11 and that was a big part of the show, The Job is a snap shot of New York just before, like almost right before. The 90's were ending/over and you get a glimpse of how the 21st century might have been if 9/11 hadn't happened.

 

The other show is Titus. During the height of the pandemic, Christopher Titus put all the shows up legally on YouTube just for an option of something to do. Not only that he actually made a new episode, reuniting the cast, as a final episode for the series. It's a great show!

[drawkcabi]

When M*A*S*H was airing the producers had the whole debate about laughtracks, they didn't want it, the network demanded it, and in the end a compromise was reached where they would never have a laughtrack during scenes in the O.R. I think that's how that happened...

There was also the great Aaron Sorkin series Sportsnight, that preceded The West Wing by 1 year. The first season had a laughtrack, the second season they were able to get rid of it.

During the 80's there was a really good John Ritter half hour single cam series called Hooperman. It was styled back thren as a new kind of show...a dramedy. I see a lot of influence from that show on single cam series of today.

 

Also, no one asked for it, but I have a penchant for lists so here is my totally subjective, U.S. centric, personalized list top 10 favorite comedies of all time:

1. The Office (U.S.)

2. Community

3. MASH

4. Taxi

5. Barney Miller

6. Newsradio

7. Frasier

8. All in the Family

9. Parks and Recreation

10. Arrested Development

It may seem strange or even an outrage that sitcoms like I Love Lucy or The Honeymooners do not make it into my top ten. With I Love Lucy, I watched it quite a bit, starting as a kid and into adulthood, I recognize its greatness and also that it was the first to establish the tropes that in subsequent years so many other sitcoms have followed along in its footsteps and utilized. I liked the show, but by the time I was alive and was watching it, it was just one of many shows that had the same kind of format, the same kind of humor, even if it was actually the first. It just never stood out to me as better than the other shows I loved, either as a kid or an adult.

With The Honeymooners, it was never on when I was a kid, or I never came across it. There were only 39 “classic” episodes of it, especially when I was a kid, the rest, known as “lost episodes” were rescued and restored kinescopes (recording of a television program on film directly through a lens focused on the screen of a video monitor) of Honeymooners sketches from The Jackie Gleason Show. I understand it’s a classic and I have seen enough and know enough to recognize when it’s being referenced, I just never got invested in the show. Maybe in the future I’ll give it the chance it deserves.

It may also be surprising that a series like Seinfeld isn’t on my top ten list. Truthfully, If this was the 90’s, it would be in my number 1 spot. However, Seinfeld, for me, loses something in every rewatch. It seems once I know how the entire plot of an episode will come together that takes out a lot of the comedy that comes from being shocked and surprised. I still think the show is one of the greats, I’ve just come to a point where there are other shows I love so much more and would rather rewatch them over rewatching Seinfeld.

[mormont]

If we're doing a general sitcom discussion, I will offer my personal spicy take, which is:

Fawlty Towers has aged badly and has more problems than you remember. (For one, nearly everything Basil says about Manuel is shown to be objectively true.) If you want to watch a classic British sitcom that does the 'pompous unlikeable lead who is the author of his own misfortunes, but at the same time put upon by the world in general', watch Rising Damp. It helps that Leonard Rossiter was easily twice the comic actor that John Cleese is. And that's no slam on Cleese: Rossiter was simply unbelievably good. 

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, mormont said:

Fawlty Towers has aged badly and has more problems than you remember. (For one, nearly everything Basil says about Manuel is shown to be objectively true.)

True. And thinking back it felt somewhat problematic even then? I don’t know, maybe my memory is being coloured by a disgusting prank Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand played on Andrew Sachs some years back. 

1 hour ago, mormont said:

If you want to watch a classic British sitcom that does the 'pompous unlikeable lead who is the author of his own misfortunes, but at the same time put upon by the world in general', watch Rising Damp. It helps that Leonard Rossiter was easily twice the comic actor that John Cleese is. And that's no slam on Cleese: Rossiter was simply unbelievably good. 

Now that’s a great idea for a binge rewatch! 

[DMC]

9 hours ago, hauberk said:

I would offer up Greg Garcia’s other series Raising Hope as a recommendation. Absolutely spectacular. 

I very much enjoyed Raising Hope too.  In particular the parents - Garrett Dillahunt was absolutely hilarious and it was a great comeback for Martha Plimpton.  Plus, Cloris Leachman, of course.  Still, in a pinch, I'll take My Name Is Earl.

[dbunting]

9 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

Also, no one asked for it, but I have a penchant for lists so here is my totally subjective, U.S. centric, personalized list top 10 favorite comedies of all time:

1. The Office (U.S.)

2. Community

3. MASH

4. Taxi

5. Barney Miller

6. Newsradio

7. Frasier

8. All in the Family

9. Parks and Recreation

10. Arrested Development

 

 

My list as I look at it isn't necessarily the best comedies, groundbreaking or whatever. Just what I like and what I like to watch in reruns as well. 

Tier 1 - will watch most episodes if they are on and I'm killing time

Friends, Big Bang, Seinfeld, Two and a half Men (Sheen episodes only)

Tier 2 - Shows I used to watch a lot of but don't stop on when channel surfing

HIMYM, Married w Children, Home Improvement, That 70's Show, Silicon Valley, Cheers, 

Tier 3 shows I remember more from childhood, some were already in reruns and probably should watch again

Wonder Years, Sanford and Son, Good Times,  Happy Days, Cosby Show, Night Court, Different Strokes, Facts of Life, Family Ties, Barney Miller

There are a lot that I just never watched that I heard are great. Arrested Development, It's always Sunny, The Office (tried a few episodes) etc.

[Spockydog]

I thought Fawlty Towers was over-rated shite ever since the 70s.

Same with Monty Python.

[BigFatCoward]

6 hours ago, Spockydog said:

I thought Fawlty Towers was over-rated shite ever since the 70s.

Same with Monty Python.

Wouldn't you have been about 4 when fawlty towers started? 

Monty Python yes, the holy grail no. 

[Heartofice]

I think Fawlty Towers does hold up well. You could probably get sniffy about some of the national stereotypes on display, but for the most part they are pretty harmless, it takes a certain type of person to get offended by them.

Otherwise the show is pretty progressive in a lot of ways. Pretty much the only two intelligent people on the show are the female characters who manage to humiliate the male characters throughout every episode. They are years ahead of their time in that regard. 

Monty Python doesn't really hold up very well, the humour doesn't seem quite so subversive any more and the format means there are lot more misses than hits. It also has the unfortunate quality of attracting obsessives who would 'parrot' lines back as if it made themselves funny. 

Holy Grail and Life of Brian are still great however. 

[Werthead]

On 3/7/2024 at 12:36 PM, mormont said:

If we're doing a general sitcom discussion, I will offer my personal spicy take, which is:

Fawlty Towers has aged badly and has more problems than you remember. (For one, nearly everything Basil says about Manuel is shown to be objectively true.) If you want to watch a classic British sitcom that does the 'pompous unlikeable lead who is the author of his own misfortunes, but at the same time put upon by the world in general', watch Rising Damp. It helps that Leonard Rossiter was easily twice the comic actor that John Cleese is. And that's no slam on Cleese: Rossiter was simply unbelievably good. 

Rising Damp is outstanding, but my favourite Rossiter is probably The Rise and Fall of Reginald Perrin, which was really ahead of its time. Serialised storytelling, distinct character arcs spanning seasons (a result of it being based on a series of novels) and just really unpredictable in how it goes. The fact they tried to remake it is hubris of the highest order.

I'm also a big fan of how One Foot in the Grave started as a very gentle, ordinary sitcom about OAPs (ignoring the fact that the two main characters are only in their 50s in the first season, but that did allow the show to go on for quite a while) and then in the Season 1 finale they just slammed the brakes and turned into unhinged surrealism (with the cat that apparently voluntarily committed suicide by crawling into their freezer). Then that just was how the show went on, with some pretty ordinary sitcom hijinks and then completely batshit side-plots, with the neighbour who may have killed his mother and just pretends she's still alive, the other neighbour machine-gunning down an army of gnomes on the front lawn and the confused movers who install a plant in the downstairs toilet (as in the toilet itself rather than just in the bathroom). The overuse of Meldrew's catchphrases I think has overshadowed just how inventive it was.

[kissdbyfire]

I loooove One Foot in the Grave!

[Ran]

Only came to know Fawlty Towers when I moved to Sweden, but I have to admit, I find it hilarious. "The Germans" is an all-time classic. Personally, I'm not sure what's wrong with Manuel actually being a fool/clown character, as someone who is somewhat closely related culturally/linguistically it never much struck me as anything but farce (and I have often quoted, "I am from Barcelona. I know nothing!") and the fact that Basil Fawlty is a terrible person means his bigotry really has no basis in reality even if Manuel happens to fit his boorish stereotype of a Spaniard. (Fun fact, Fawlty Towers was quite popular in Spain, but Manuel the Spaniard is instead Paolo the Italian.)

(FWIW, Blackadder is my favorite British sitcom, but I am a history buff. Baldrick is also exactly the same sort of clown as Manuel, and Blackadder never lets him forget it, either. Well, except in the first series, where the roles were reversed.)

Rossiter I only know at a distance, due to Ralph Fiennes having developed a passing resemblance to him over the years, and also Fiennes admitted he based some of his Grand Budapest Hotel character's voice and mannerisms on Rossiter. From clips I've seen, I will say Cleese was clearly a more physical comedian.

But I have to say, I'm glad I did some Googling for clips, and then this gem popped up:

Okay, and this came up next, even better. Rowan Atkinson's fantastic:

 

And it goes on... Youtube's algorithm is pretty good.

Edited March 8 by Ran

[Derfel Cadarn]

17 hours ago, Spockydog said:

I thought Fawlty Towers was over-rated shite ever since the 70s.

Same with Monty Python.

I’ve never been a massive fan of it.

[Jaxom 1974]

How in the heck did this thread, ostensibly about one of the most popular American sitcoms ever, devolve into a discussion about what constitutes a superior British sitcom...usually about ones most of haven't heard of, let alone seen unless you've caught them on PBS late on a Friday or Saturday?

That's high comedy... 

[williamjm]

2 hours ago, Ran said:

(Fun fact, Fawlty Towers was quite popular in Spain, but Manuel the Spaniard is instead Paolo the Italian.)

I remember a former colleague who was from Spain and called Manuel saying that he was confused when he first moved to the UK about why so many British people asked him if he was from Barcelona when they found out his name. Then he saw the original language version of Fawlty Towers (having only seen the Spanish dub before) and he realised why.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

How in the heck did this thread, ostensibly about one of the most popular American sitcoms ever, devolve into a discussion about what constitutes a superior British sitcom...usually about ones most of haven't heard of, let alone seen unless you've caught them on PBS late on a Friday or Saturday?

Not only that, but eventually we have to talk Monty Python, which obviously isn't even the topic but rather sketch comedy.  I love Live of Brian n'all but can British people NOT mention Monty Python for, like, one thread?  SNL is perhaps more impactful on US comedy, but who the fuck gives a shit?