Watch, Watched, Watching: It's Award Season

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 hours ago, DMC said:

Yes, Reilly is plainly just physically the better choice.  IIRC per McKay it wasn't exactly the fact that he cast Reilly, just that he failed to communicate with Ferrell before doing so.

Yeah, I believe that's what happened.

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Anyway, I think McKay and Ferrell's comedy can still work today.  I'm always surprised how much students/young people still enjoy and are very familiar with the apex of McKay/Ferrell during the aughts from Anchorman to Talladega Nights to Step Brothers to Other Guys.  It's an amusing contrast - if I ask them about political events during the aughts - even the Iraq War?  Crickets...

Those comedies do hold up really well which usually doesn't happen IMO, but I think that was a golden era that can't be replicated today. During that period a ton of classic comedies came out. Now they're few and far between. Something has changed. I can't exactly put my finger on why, but it's hard to deny most comedies suck today. 

[Heartofice]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Those comedies do hold up really well which usually doesn't happen IMO, but I think that was a golden era that can't be replicated today. During that period a ton of classic comedies came out. Now they're few and far between. Something has changed. I can't exactly put my finger on why, but it's hard to deny most comedies suck today. 

Yeah it's a real shame and I guess it's due to a lot of things all at once.

Probably the big one is that comedies probably don't always make a lot of money, there are always a lot of dud comedies and in the modern era people are probably more likely to want to just stay at home to watch them than go to a theatre.

Then I think comedy is so dependent on pure talent. 10-15 years ago we had a sort of mini golden age where a bunch of people all worked together closely and created a tight knit group of funny people. You had the Apatow crowd and the McKay crowd and there were lots of really interesting comedic voices who all bounced off of each other. Maybe many of them died in This is the End, and thats the reason.

I don't think those people have been replaced. Who are the genuinely funny talents these days and are they getting access to the mainstream with big movie opportunities. Personally I love Tim Robinson and Sam Richardson from the detroiters but they are quite niche. There doesn't seem to be this big ex-SNL alumni coming through who get promoted to movies.

Then there is the politics thing. So much comedy just seems to be political these days, and it's often just not that funny. Its also divisive and plays to a crowd. 

Also, the cancel culture thing. I'm sure quite a lot of comedians just don't want to take risks any more. We have a whole industry of people going back and re-examining old shows and movies and proclaiming them heresy. Why would anyone want to put themselves through that. Lots of comedy these days feels very safe, and really tick boxy.

[DMC]

52 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Those comedies do hold up really well which usually doesn't happen IMO, but I think that was a golden era that can't be replicated today. During that period a ton of classic comedies came out. Now they're few and far between. Something has changed. I can't exactly put my finger on why, but it's hard to deny most comedies suck today. 

27 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Probably the big one is that comedies probably don't always make a lot of money, there are always a lot of dud comedies and in the modern era people are probably more likely to want to just stay at home to watch them than go to a theatre.

Yeah I think this reflects a point I've heard touched upon by some Ringer podcasts the past year or so - the "middle class" of Hollywood films has all but disappeared.  It's either major huge budget IP or, basically, independent and/or prestige films on a shoestring budget. 

Even a movie like Poor Things with a prominent cast and a very reputable creative team only had a budget of $35 million according to wikipedia - and that's a very rare example of something that could be described as "middle class."  It's a really unfortunate development and hopefully the pendulum will swing back some in the coming years.  In this way, Marvel films becoming less profitable could be a very good thing for the industry.

 

[Heartofice]

51 minutes ago, DMC said:

It's a really unfortunate development and hopefully the pendulum will swing back some in the coming years.  In this way, Marvel films becoming less profitable could be a very good thing for the industry.

 

I don't really see it ever swinging back, the death of the MCU probably won't change the main issue: that streaming has cut the middle out of the movie market. There is probably some success to be had with middle income movies, but it will be through a mix of theatre release and streaming numbers... and maybe sequels. John Wick is an example of a lowish budget movie that found success through buzz and spawned a bunch of profitable sequels.

Either way, I don't see comedy ever being successful enough to become an 'event movie' which is pretty much what you need to create if you want to go huge budget these days.

The more interesting question is where is the comedy on the small screen? There really aren't that many great comedies on streaming either. 

[DMC]

13 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I don't really see it ever swinging back, the death of the MCU probably won't change the main issue: that streaming has cut the middle out of the movie market. There is probably some success to be had with middle income movies, but it will be through a mix of theatre release and streaming numbers... and maybe sequels. John Wick is an example of a lowish budget movie that found success through buzz and spawned a bunch of profitable sequels.

We'll see.  I understand this pessimistic perspective but I try to be more positive.  Things shift all the time, but sure, streaming is a big hurdle for the pendulum to swing back. 

On comedies being big budget "event movies" I don't think that's necessary - that was kinda my point.  Even the golden age in the aughts we were referring, the vast majority of those comedies didn't have huge budgets.  Only one that comes to mind would be Tropic Thunder, and even that was still $92 million in 2008.  Personally I'd describe that as "upper middle class" to extend the analogy.

On small screen comedies, Abbott Elementary is the obvious and perhaps only example.  Can't think of anything else.  I guess Young Sheldon?  It's certainly better than Big Bang as your classic family sitcom.  Then again, it's also about to air its final season I believe.

[Ran]

4 hours ago, Veltigar said:

Glad you like it. I feel like it's a bit underseen at the moment, which is a shame for a great film like this.

I feel like the very late opening has a lot to do with it, but I think they're hoping awards-buzz leads to a sustained audience. It feels like that happens less and less these days, though, the award show bump.

Funny about that Killers of the Flower Moon scene:

Spoiler

I strongly disliked it. It was too long and self-indulgent for my tastes. It was like 4, 5 minutes, and could have been half that. 

And yet there's nothing like that in Poor Things -- that is, a scene I thought self-indulgent or over-long -- but then Poor Things has you buy-in to the weird and whimsical from the very start, it doesn't ever really change the tonality of the picture, it merely deepens as we go along and Bella's understanding and appreciation of the world grows as well.

I see Stone and Dafoe (as well as Margaret Qualley) are reuniting with Lanthimos for his next film, Kind of Kindness, co-written with The Lobster and Killing of the Sacred Deer collaborator Efthimis Filippou. Something to look forward to.

[Heartofice]

36 minutes ago, DMC said:

Only one that comes to mind would be Tropic Thunder, and even that was still $92 million in 2008.  Personally I'd describe that as "upper middle class" to extend the analogy.

Sure, but these movies wouldn't ever get to theatres these days, they'd be thrown onto Netflix and forgotten about. Thats the problem.
 

37 minutes ago, DMC said:

On small screen comedies, Abbott Elementary is the obvious and perhaps only example.  Can't think of anything else.  I guess Young Sheldon?  It's certainly better than Big Bang as your classic family sitcom.  Then again, it's also about to air its final season I believe.

I'm sure there will always be a market for mass appeal, not exactly ground breaking comedy, streaming services have really struggled to create a new one however which is why they keep fighting over who owns The Office or Friends. I'm more concerned about genuinely funny comedy that has an original voice. 

[Veltigar]

I finished Castlevania Nocturne today. Not as good as I had hoped, but still watchable. I really like the art style, the fact that it doesn't hesitate to be weird, and I have enough fond memories of the original adaptation to stick around for a while, but I do hope they'll put some more care in their plotting. Every character in this seems to be suicidal, the way they (repeatedly) walk into the same suicidal plan was kind of baffling to see. From a character and plot perspective, they could do better.

3 hours ago, Ran said:

I feel like the very late opening has a lot to do with it, but I think they're hoping awards-buzz leads to a sustained audience. It feels like that happens less and less these days, though, the award show bump.

That's mostly a good thing in my book though. I feel like for American films at least, there is a lot of pressure to release in as many markets simultaneously as possible (probably to combat piracy), which I like because I don't want to wait endless months to see a film and miss out on all the good discussion.

It's actually one of the major disadvantages for other film industries (except for perhaps the Indian blockbusters, we get those pretty much simultaneously with India over here), since you sometimes see a great film from e.g. Poland or Denmark or anywhere really gather buzz, but then you never know what kind of release window it will have in your market.

3 hours ago, Ran said:

I see Stone and Dafoe (as well as Margaret Qualley) are reuniting with Lanthimos for his next film, Kind of Kindness, co-written with The Lobster and Killing of the Sacred Deer collaborator Efthimis Filippou. Something to look forward to.

A little bit sad to see McNamara isn't part of this reunion. He works wonderful with Stone and he elevates Lanthimos imo. I still haven't seen Killing of the Sacred Deer, but The Lobster was not as good as Poor Things and The Favourite imo (still enjoyable of course).

 

3 hours ago, Ran said:

 

Funny about that Killers of the Flower Moon scene:

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I strongly disliked it. It was too long and self-indulgent for my tastes. It was like 4, 5 minutes, and could have been half that. 

And yet there's nothing like that in Poor Things -- that is, a scene I thought self-indulgent or over-long -- but then Poor Things has you buy-in to the weird and whimsical from the very start, it doesn't ever really change the tonality of the picture, it merely deepens as we go along and Bella's understanding and appreciation of the world grows as well.

 

Sad you didn't like that scene, I actually thought that film could use some more explicitness like that, given the fact that it 

Spoiler

did acknowledge the difficult ethics of making this film. 

Agreed on what you write about Poor Things though, and I find it a sign of strength that it just immediately draws you into its world. I look forward to seeing some good video essays about everything going on in there

[DMC]

6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Sure, but these movies wouldn't ever get to theatres these days, they'd be thrown onto Netflix and forgotten about. Thats the problem.

I dunno, I definitely think it's in the realm of possibility.  I mean, just scrolling down to the 30s to 40s of Box Office Mojo in 2023, there are plenty of movies that got extended theatrical releases - and, granted, are imminently forgettable.  Haunted Mansion, another Exorcist movie, Cocaine Bear...

6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I'm more concerned about genuinely funny comedy that has an original voice. 

To each their own, but I think Abbott Elementary qualifies for that.  

[Ran]

Some re-watching: Galaxy Quest, which I realized on rewatch I've never actually seen the whole thing. Still holds up -- the Thermians are particularly just ridiculously amusing, and the main cast is very solid, even Tim Allen. Tony Shaloub's extremely copacetic performance stood out to me this time, he gets some of the best bits. RIP, Alan Rickman, too.

Then Silver Linings Playbook, David O. Russell's next-to-last great film to date (American Hustle is also very good, but not remotely as endearing). I saw it in part because it was featured on The Rewatchables and in part because of seeing Cooper in Maestro. I really didn't think very much, when I first saw it, about how crucial the Philadelphia Eagles are to the film, and specifically how fans of a sport team may associate the travails of their own lives with the fate of their chosen team(s), but the podcast (with three Philly guys hosting) kind of drove it home and pointed out that Matthew Quick's novel was even clearer about this idea that the Eagles season tracks with the ups and downs that the characters face. 

In any case, this may be Bradley Cooper at his most manic but also charming, and Jennifer Lawrence... jeez, she was just amazing for someone so young -- all of 22 or so when it was filmed, I think? Just funny and brassy and vulnerable all rolled into one. There's a certain screwball comedy note to the film, or a modern take on it, that I appreciated a lot (I love the old screwball comedies.) 

[DMC]

54 minutes ago, Ran said:

the Thermians are particularly just ridiculously amusing, and the main cast is very solid

Yeah I really liked Enrico Colantoni as the head alien.  He was pretty good in Just Shoot Me.

[williamjm]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

Some re-watching: Galaxy Quest, which I realized on rewatch I've never actually seen the whole thing. Still holds up -- the Thermians are particularly just ridiculously amusing, and the main cast is very solid, even Tim Allen. Tony Shaloub's extremely copacetic performance stood out to me this time, he gets some of the best bits. RIP, Alan Rickman, too.

I think it might have been the first thing I saw Sam Rockwell in and he also gets some good scenes.

[TormundsWoman]

On 1/30/2024 at 9:29 AM, Rippounet said:

Anyway, what screams US conservatism in Forrest Gump is the idea that you will -eventually- be rewarded through providence if you work hard enough. What makes the movie so magical is precisely the way in which Forrest's simple-mindedness ends up being a form of blessing in disguise, because the events keep turning in his favor.

Eh, a majority of upbeat and super positive personalities also have this no matter where on the political spectrum they are. In spades. Why am I typing this? because I hate that, so I tend to notice these things.

Like yourself, I'm also fun at parties :p

@polishgenius 300 is totally a message movie... If you work hard enough with the spear and shield you get abs like that.

 

Big fan of that movie. It's probably because of Frank Miller and the novelty of seeing it on screen so well done. Also happy to see any adaptation of the battle of Thermopylae. I don't care how not true to the events it is.

[JGP]

Got to say, the first episode of Mr and Mrs Smith was solid, but… wasn’t sure.
 

Bored though so said fuck it. Going to stop at three, but I’m sold. Can definitely feel a bit of that Glover surrealism, and it’s charming as fuck.

[TheLastWolf]

I'm going to finish Dark waiting for the next True Detective episode lol

[Veltigar]

I finished my rewatch of Avatar: The Last Airbender. Interesting experience, since I last saw it many years ago. It's interesting to see the entire series in chronological order and it turned out somewhat different than I expected. I had anticipated book 1 to be a bit of a chore (which is why I didn't do this rewatch earlier I guess), with book 2 and book 3 being stellar.

On my rewatch however, I found book 1 to be much better than I remembered. Sure, there are some unsophisticated episodes, but the whole was definitely a fair bit better than my memory gave it credit for. Book 2 is the best season, that was always what I remembered, and I stick with that after my rewatch.

The one, let's say sour note, is book 3. I actually thought it weaker than what I remembered. Some of it was the remaining childish humour that doesn't mesh well with the seriousness of that last season, some was the underwhelming reveal of Ozai, but mostly I think I didn't like this final season much because it felt rushed.

There were quite a few story beats that I think were rather good ideas, but were poorly executed, mainly due to a lack of time. For example, I felt that the following plot points deserved more episodes

Spoiler

Sokha's training as a sword master feels like an afterthought. He's always been a bit of a hapless character and clearly not the creative team's favourite (which is why he's dead by the time of Legend of Korra), but his training under his master and subsequent gaining in skills should have been a bigger part of the season.

Similarly, Zuko's training of Aang and his integration within the group could also have used more time. They even jokingly acknowledge this with a throwaway gag in the final set of episodes when Toph claims Zuko as a partner to search Aang (given how he went on life altering adventures with the other).

Azula's decline was also poorly handled. I feel like she went to pieces in about two scenes, which was an ignoble end for the greatest villain of this show. I think more focus on her relationship with Ozai would have been good for both characters, as Ozai's Phoenix King turn is rather pathetic as it, and it would add a greater deal of psychological realism.

The energy bending resolution feels a bit too deus-ex-machina. Sure, the lion turtles already made an appearance in a scroll in Wan Shi Tong's library, but for the rest it wasn't properly set up, and thus feels like a cop out.

Now I think they did a reasonably good job given the time constraints, but it does feel a bit sloppy, as if they tried to cram to much content into one book.

It does make me slightly hopeful that Netflix's live-action adaptation might have a reason to exist, as it could perhaps give that final season more depth, but I remain doubtful.

[RhaenysBee]

On 1/31/2024 at 10:55 PM, Ran said:

Then Silver Linings Playbook, David O. Russell's next-to-last great film to date (American Hustle is also very good, but not remotely as endearing). I saw it in part because it was featured on The Rewatchables and in part because of seeing Cooper in Maestro. I really didn't think very much, when I first saw it, about how crucial the Philadelphia Eagles are to the film, and specifically how fans of a sport team may associate the travails of their own lives with the fate of their chosen team(s), but the podcast (with three Philly guys hosting) kind of drove it home and pointed out that Matthew Quick's novel was even clearer about this idea that the Eagles season tracks with the ups and downs that the characters face. 

In any case, this may be Bradley Cooper at his most manic but also charming, and Jennifer Lawrence... jeez, she was just amazing for someone so young -- all of 22 or so when it was filmed, I think? Just funny and brassy and vulnerable all rolled into one. There's a certain screwball comedy note to the film, or a modern take on it, that I appreciated a lot (I love the old screwball comedies.) 

The Silver Linings Playbook is about so much. (Or you know, I can read so much into it) Sports impact on sports fans lives is just one dimension of control over one’s life. Pat’s dad thinks it’s the Eagles season that stirs his and his family’s fate, Pat thinks it’s Nikki and repairing his relationship with her. Tiffany is the disrupter who is outside of the norm, whatever that norm is for every character and shows that being outside of the norm isn’t necessarily bad or to be frowned upon because sometimes it takes disruption to achieve balance and step forward. Her game night monologue  points out that the Eagles are lucky because of her presence in Pat’s life, which is of course bull and her own manipulative way to get Pat back into dancing, but it’s the whole point of the movie. These outside events can be interpreted in any way, and one can spin any narrative. Life is about how you interpret outside events and your own choices, not some predetermined or directly linked sequence of signs or Eagles wins. And for this reason normal Is relative, Ronnie and Veronica’s normal and perfect family life make them miserable and Pat’s desperate attempts to get back to normal only spiral him out and Tiffany who is labeled as the crazy person is the one to (unwittingly) roll the crew onto the right track. You can and should take control of your life, and no matter how outside of norm it may be, it can be good, meaningful and rewarding. It also has the best vibes and most lovable characters. I love that movie so much.  

[RhaenysBee]

Oh also, I watched Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince last night while ironing. I was halfway through but I could write a 5 pages essay on how absolutely terrible it is even though it’s one of the better Harry Potter movies. You know, if any big millennial franchise and pop culture phenomenon should get a remake, it’s Harry Potter. The movies beyond the first two, generously three are atrociously bad. 

And I’m still rewatching Buffy. On the rewatch, yes I hear you, Dawn is horrible.  But that aside, my brain wants to bathe in a Buffy script all day every day. I want a lecture series about Buffy. I want a writing master class based on Buffy. 

[Darryk]

Beef on Netflix is very good, can see why it won so many awards.

Fantastic performances from Steven Yeun and Ali Wong.

 

[Zorral]

Been watching the latest in the Netflix history documentaries, this one Alexander: The Making of a God.  Not a fan of these sorts of docu formats, with repetitive live action scenes portrayed by actors in inexpensive 'historic' sets and locations*, but sometimes the Netflix approach is actually involving and educational in parts.  They are uneven -- parts of the Rise of Empires series, Ottoman: Mehmed vs. Vlad has quite a bit of good material, revealing parts of this past not often (at least in the 'west') covered or noticed in any treatment of the Ottoman Empire. The Age of Samurai was very good, both in teaching and involvement.   For the Alexander series, I'm not sure.  Some of it is very useful for those like me who know little about his career -- a focus on his Egyptian period, about which I knew nothing, and that's revealing. What struck me most is that after his victory at Issus, is that was when he went to Egypt -- he didn't continue on directly to the empire-changing battle of Gaugamela. 

Then, in this documentary, he beds Darius's wife in Egypt, impregnates her; both she and child die soon after the birth.  I'd never read anything regarding this -- but I don't know this period . . . I dunno. Their relationship is depicted as passionate.  I dunno about that either.  Mary Renault and Hephaestion might be turning in their graves? 

Have no idea if NF will do a second season of Alexander, as this ends quickly with Darius's final defeat.  There's a lot more after this in The Great's history.

* We are treated in this one to a simoon, one of the killer Saharan Desert sandstorms.  When it's over, none of them or their camels are even buried in sand, not even a little bit!  They don't even have to shake out their blankets!  No sand on the camels! Hephaestion's beard has retained its perfect, stylish shape and length! while Alexander still doesn't need to shave at all!