US Politics: Chaos Made to Border

[Phylum of Alexandria]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

They connect with their fan base is the simple answer. Bringing it back to politics, that's how a lot of mediocre elected officials get elected. 

I don't completely disagree. I tried to make similar points in a thread about The Culture Industry. But I found it was hard to tease apart that critique from good ol' curmudgeonly snobbery, whether it was due to my explanation, or others' interpretation, or both.

 

 

[Fragile Bird]

14 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Going back to it.

and I also find her song writing also just okay, but not exceptional. It just doesn't appeal to me at all. And how are conservatives so scared of her.

What am I missing?

 

Not into song lyrics much, are you? Her writing is the reason so many people love her. Try searching “Taylor Swifts’s best lyrics” and lots of praise comes up. Her story telling in some of her songs is amazing. See “All too well”, a really poignant song. Great lines. “You call me up again just to break me like a promise, So casually cruel in the name of being honest, I’m a crumpled up piece of paper lying here, ‘Cause I remember it all, all, all too well”. 

She added lyrics to the new long version, about Jake charming her father, drinking coffee in the kitchen like “you’re on a late/night show”, and her father watching her watch the front door all night, and saying “it’s supposed to be fun turning twenty-one”.

Trust me, I’m not a 12-year old, and I hear lots of things in her songs.

Why are Republicans so frightened of her? She sponsors “register to vote” campaigns and tells her audience that they can change the world, that they have power. Women with power, that scares the bastards. And she does whatever the fuck she wants to do, she has affairs and suffers break-ups and even if her heart gets broken she picks up and moves on. There was a period where people really tried to crush her, destroy her reputation (and she wrote songs about it) (the tramp who can’t keep a man, something’s wrong with her, that kinda shit), and she’s bigger than ever.

Gawd, I remember when the video for “Shake it Off” came out, she got attacked for all kinds of reasons including attacks from black commentators who literally said, how dare she try to twerk her ass like a black woman, go home whitey and stop your cultural appropriation. Really. 

I wish Hilary Clinton had her ability to knock down her critics.

[horangi]

34 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

There use to be a better balance between the quality of art and the profit motive. Now it feels like most things are safe and sterile and that tends to line up with a lot of problems in the US. Just look at the empty political messaging and mind numbing corporate double speak. And it's only going to get worse. 

 

Well since you are a Tool fan, I've got some advice for you, little buddy.  Before you point your finger, you should know that I'm the man.  I'm the man and you're the man and he's the man as well, so you can point your finger up your...

Point being, I don't think this age of music is really all that different from the previous when it comes to the 'purity' of the business. 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

Not into song lyrics much, are you? Her writing is the reason so many people love her.

I have looked up some of her lyrics, and she does seem to have a sort of Elvis Costello vibe: all wounded emotion and snark wrapped up in clever turns of phrase. But her turns of phrase called to mind early Springsteen more than EC.

Still, her song topics are overall too Dear Diary for me personally, but as I said, young listeners can do a lot worse.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

Not into song lyrics much, are you? Her writing is the reason so many people love her. Try searching “Taylor Swifts’s best lyrics” and lots of praise comes up. Her story telling in some of her songs is amazing. See “All too well”, a really poignant song. Great lines. “You call me up again just to break me like a promise, So casually cruel in the name of being honest, I’m a crumpled up piece of paper lying here, ‘Cause I remember it all, all, all too well”. 

I admit, I haven't listened closely to her lyrics, was more listening to what she was doing musically. Which is solid, but not earth shattering in any form. Lyrically, is her story telling really better than say Tracy Chapman's? I really don't mean to be mean to Swift and Swifties, so I'd be  fairly happy to let this go. I just don't get the hype, everything she does is good/solid and she is a perfectly fine musician. I just can't see why she is the biggest in town.

[kissdbyfire]

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say… we’ll, no, I won’t say folks sounds almost MAGA-like irt Taylor Swift, that would be unfair. 
But it seems like most of the “criticism” here is that she’s very good, puts on a great show, has great lyrics but isn’t a once in a lifetime artist. The problem w/ that imo is that very, very few fall into that category, and otoh, there are plenty of artists who range from ok-ish to mediocre and achieve enormous success, even if not on the scale Swift has. So my question is, what gives? She’s too popular and famous despite being only great/very good? 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, horangi said:

Well since you are a Tool fan, I've got some advice for you, little buddy.  Before you point your finger, you should know that I'm the man.  I'm the man and you're the man and he's the man as well, so you can point your finger up your...

Point being, I don't think this age of music is really all that different from the previous when it comes to the 'purity' of the business. 

Eh, agree to disagree. I think it's largely just turned into pop that sells. And that doesn't mean it's all bad, but a lot of it is bland.

 

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

If you mean me, that was probably more down to expectations. Biggest record selling artists, most number ones etc. By that metrc I kinda (unreasonably) expected something mindblowing from a once in a lifetime artist. And that I simply don't see in her.

What she does is good and solid music. Her stuff connects to her fans, and her sales are good. Power to her. It just doesn't appeal to me, and I don't get the hype. That's all.

Edited February 3 by A Horse Named Stranger

[Phylum of Alexandria]

15 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

But it seems like most of the “criticism” here is that she’s very good, puts on a great show, has great lyrics but isn’t a once in a lifetime artist. The problem w/ that imo is that very, very few fall into that category, and otoh, there are plenty of artists who range from ok-ish to mediocre and achieve enormous success, even if not on the scale Swift has. So my question is, what gives? She’s too popular and famous despite being only great/very good? 

Don't combine our comments together into some larger critique--they're quite distinct!

Ty is saying that no pop star today is good. I totally get Beyonce's critical and fan adulation, and don't totally get Taylor's adulation, though I acknowledge that she has talent. And I think the right wing sour grapes is just pathetic.

Horse sounds closer to where I am, though I don't know where he falls with respect to other pop stars.

Edit: Also, I never said "great" lyrics. Elvis Costello has great lyrics. Taylor Swift has better lyrics than her peers.

Edited February 3 by Phylum of Alexandria

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I didn't say there are no good pop stars, just that they're basically mid with the occasional banger and in general the music industry is pretty sterile to maximize sales. It feels like it's made with a focus group in mind, just like most political statements. >95% of both are bland as hell, but it's what's working. 

[kissdbyfire]

20 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

If you mean me, that was probably more down to expectations. Biggest record selling artists, most number ones etc. By that metrc I kinda (unreasonably) expected something mindblowing from a once in a lifetime artist. And that I simply don't see in her.

What she does is good and solid music. Her stuff connects to her fans, and her sales are good. Power to her. It just doesn't appeal to me, and I don't get the hype. That's all.

That’s pretty much where I am, or where I think I’d be if I’d listened to her music, meaning, I don’t expect to be surprised when I eventually do.
———

Mind you, I’m not in any way, shape or form saying her success is undeserved, just don’t think the style it will appeal to me much. Also, there are a lot of artists who have a lot more success than their talent warrants, but even that is subjective. If the artist aims at getting their work seen/heard by as many as possible and they have a huge fan base, then their success is deserved, at least on some level regardless  individuals not really being into their work. 

15 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Don't combine our comments together into some larger critique--they're quite distinct!

I wasn’t, it was just a broad comment on the fact that many have said things along the lines of what I said, basically that her talent falls short of explaining her huge success. I don’t even have an opinion at all since I’ve never heard her music knowingly nor read any of her lyrics. 

[Spockydog]

The problem with "the music today" began when people decided that recording artists were basically being unreasonable in expecting payment for their work.

 

[Larry of the Lawn]

2 hours ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

I didn't say there are no good pop stars, just that they're basically mid with the occasional banger and in general the music industry is pretty sterile to maximize sales. It feels like it's made with a focus group in mind, just like most political statements. >95% of both are bland as hell, but it's what's working. 

Wait... Do you think that most music and art out there is the stuff that's popular and widely known?  Like, I'm not super familiar with music outside the shit I like but there's probably never been a better time in the US to be able to go out in a city and find the kind of music you're looking for.  

Like, yon can literally find just about anything out there.  If you want to say that mainstream music sucks, ok, cool story Hansel... That's kind of been the rule rather than the exception since recorded music?

[Zorral]

49 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

The problem with "the music today" began when people decided that recording artists were basically being unreasonable in expecting payment for their work.

However people still expect musicians to perform for nothing but the exposure ... just like writers are to write for the exposure.

I must say though, from direct experience, things are this dire mostly in the United State of America.  Don't know about the UK, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were so there too.  But in other countries, which still have public life, and do not expect clubbing to mean a dj rather than live music, it is different.  Though, also from direct experience, other countries have incredible djs too, particularly in Cuba and Africa.

Edited February 4 by Zorral

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

Wait... Do you think that most music and art out there is the stuff that's popular and widely known?  Like, I'm not super familiar with music outside the shit I like but there's probably never been a better time in the US to be able to go out in a city and find the kind of music you're looking for.  

Like, yon can literally find just about anything out there.  If you want to say that mainstream music sucks, ok, cool story Hansel... That's kind of been the rule rather than the exception since recorded music?

You can find a lot of great stuff at small venues, but they often never pop despite being I think objectively better than most of the top artists today.

And then Tekashi69 just offends my soul. 

[Zorral]

Another one persuaded that the Constitution does rule steaming pile of orange toxicity cannot be on the ballot.

This guy himself is a steaming pile, but like broken clox being right once a day (if they are 24 hour clox) . . . .

Why I changed my mind and think Trump should be thrown off the ballot
By E.J. Dionne Jr.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/04/trump-ballot-disqualified-14th-amendment/

... Donald Trump should be barred from running for president under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

[polishgenius]

I think I have a more negative view of Taylor Swift than she really deserves because her better  songs aren't particularly memorable to me, whereas her worse songs are nails on chalkboard, so I remember the stuff I don't like much much more. 

 

(but also those worse songs are usually rebellious or 'self-reflective' songs that I don't think she's good at- Shake It Off, Look What You Made Me Do, Anti-Hero- so my perception of her is of being whiny, even though again on a broad front that's probably not fair)

 

eta: The Man is a bop, though. 

Edited February 4 by polishgenius

[Ormond]

On 2/1/2024 at 6:59 PM, kissdbyfire said:

That’s basically my reply when evangelicals knock on my door to convert me. But I say it in a super sunny smiley sweet way,

“oh thank you so much, it’s so sweet that you worry about my soul! But we’re all satanists here! Thanks heaps anyway, and have a great Sunday!”

Do you really get Evangelicals knocking on your door?

The great majority of those using door-to-door methods for religious conversion in the USA are either Jehovah's Witnesses or LDS (Mormons), neither of which are "evangelicals". 

 

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Ormond said:

Do you really get Evangelicals knocking on your door?

The great majority of those using door-to-door methods for religious conversion in the USA are either Jehovah's Witnesses or LDS (Mormons), neither of which are "evangelicals". 

 

I’m not in the US, I’m not American. And I can say it’s pretty common in other places, I’ve had it happen to me in 3 different countries. 

[Zorral]

Maybe, a big reason that orange toxic pile is so insanely infuriated that Nikki Haley continues her campaign, is this means he's got to spend campaign money on primaries, when the fascist party's treasure chest's contents is rather meager, They Say, particularly as the contents tend to be diverted to pay legal fees and bills.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/republicans-trump-fund-raise-campaign-biden-rcna137059

Then here's another point for outrage:

Why attacking Trump's age and mental capacity is a smart strategy for Nikki Haley

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/nikki-haley-biden-trump-age-old-attack-rcna136878

Quote

 

.... With the GOP primary officially a two-person race, Haley is starting to crank up her attacks against Trump. (This is a welcome change from 2023, when Haley and everyone not named Chris Christie or Asa Hutchinson acted as if they were deathly afraid of offending Trump’s core followers.)

As Haley digs in before the South Carolina primary on Feb. 24, she is returning to well-trodden ground.

Team Haley is thinking first and foremost about potential donors. There are big-money backers out there, some of whom originally supported Christie, looking for a candidate who isn’t afraid of taking on Trump. If Haley doesn’t start throwing — and landing — some big punches, these donors will not support her candidacy. ....