US Politics: Courting Justice...or Disaster?

[Which Tyler]

15 hours ago, Zorral said:

Alabama Supreme Court rules frozen embryos are 'children' under state law
The Alabama Supreme Court has ruled that frozen embryos created during fertility treatments should be considered children under state law

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/alabama-supreme-court-rules-frozen-embryos-children-state-107370815

 

 

[TrackerNeil]

7 hours ago, SeanF said:

You’d know better than I, but can you get more repellent than say, Roy Moore?

I am sure the Republican Party is up to the challenge. 

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

11 hours ago, Zorral said:

After Alabama declared embryos are children --

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/02/20/alabama-supreme-court-ivf-embryos/

We know what it means. They've been telling us for a very long time what all this means.

Getting rid of birth control is a key GOP agenda item for the second Trump term -- 

Heritage Foundation and Project 2025 (on the xitter so no linking) --

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/02/getting-rid-of-birth-control-is-a-key-gop-agenda-item-for-the-second-trump-term

 

Tells you how toxic some strands of Christianity are that they find recreational sex (which I'm assuming is sex for the sake of having sex because its pleasurable as opposed to procreation) reprehensible. Also, I find the Alabama ruling hilarious in its inanity because in my faith the soul very much does NOT enter at the time of conception but so much for freedom of religion or separation of church and state, yeah? [Also doesn't occur to any of these folks that some religions, gasp, allow abortion, albeit with some restrictions. Then again, these are the same people who would be up in arms over "sharia law" so maybe I should set my expectations lower. Much, much lower.]

[Centrist Simon Steele]

On 2/20/2024 at 6:01 AM, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Continue.

Supreme Court might rule on the Colorado case soon. I didn't mention it at the time, but I found it rather revolting that no justice chose to speak on the issue of whether Trump did in fact engage in or support insurrection. I know they're being "strategic" on this one, but to see even the liberal justices dancing around the issue despite the plain facts, not to mention the whole purpose of the clause coming from the Civil War, makes me retch a bit.

I'm pretty angry about how the Supreme Court case is looking to go. They're pro states rights as long as it doesn't hurt the white upper class. I live in Colorado, and I think it's pretty clear that the Colorado Supreme Court looked at the evidence and concluded Trump violated the 14th amendment by instigating an insurrection.

The arguments being made at the federal Supreme Court and the questioning line of the judges seems so far away from the case, I have little hope at this point. I know their justification is, "If we let this happen to Trump, it sets a precedent," but maybe work a little harder guys? Maybe make it clear in your ruling what counts as an insurrection (not a liberal being president), and what it takes to prove that. That evidence against Trump is substantial.

ETA: Since it's been awhile to post, I also want to say I'm extremely worried about Biden being our nominee against Trump. I hesitantly voted for Biden in 2020, and I'll happily vote for him this year (I think he's done an excellent job), but his age coupled with several other issues are going to make this a hard election to win, and if he doesn't win, it's going to be Trump.

I am teaching a Holocaust unit now, and I focused a bit more on Hitler's rise to power (in my prep for the unit) this time, and I'm devastated and terrified between the similarities. The one good thing in our case is Trump is way older than Hitler was.

Edited February 21 by Centrist Simon Steele

[Maithanet]

12 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

I hesitantly voted for Biden in 2020, and I'll happily vote for him this year (I think he's done an excellent job), but his age coupled with several other issues are going to make this a hard election to win, and if he doesn't win, it's going to be Trump.

Why do you think Biden has done an excellent job?  I am not a Biden hater, but I feel like it's a pretty mixed bag. 

[TrackerNeil]

20 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

The arguments being made at the federal Supreme Court and the questioning line of the judges seems so far away from the case, I have little hope at this point. I know their justification is, "If we let this happen to Trump, it sets a precedent," but maybe work a little harder guys? Maybe make it clear in your ruling what counts as an insurrection (not a liberal being president), and what it takes to prove that. That evidence against Trump is substantial.

The best rationale I heard coming from the SCOTUS arguments is that we can't let states make these decisions on their own, which I think is reasonable. Not necessarily decisive, but reasonable. I am sure that if the courts let Colorado knock Trump off the ballot, Texas would move instantly to do the same for Biden, and Ohio would follow, and so on. This should probably be something Congress decides, but of course Congress can't do much of anything. If Republicans wouldn't pass their own goddamn border bill because Trump was opposed, they certainly won't move to disquality Trump from office. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

36 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

Tells you how toxic some strands of Christianity are that they find recreational sex (which I'm assuming is sex for the sake of having sex because its pleasurable as opposed to procreation) reprehensible. Also, I find the Alabama ruling hilarious in its inanity because in my faith the soul very much does NOT enter at the time of conception but so much for freedom of religion or separation of church and state, yeah? [Also doesn't occur to any of these folks that some religions, gasp, allow abortion, albeit with some restrictions. Then again, these are the same people who would be up in arms over "sharia law" so maybe I should set my expectations lower. Much, much lower.]

I’m curious to see of this means parents can sue for “child support” from sperm donors for the cost of keeping the “children” in frozen stasis?  Further, is it murder now if a power outage causes a freezer failure?

[TrackerNeil]

3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I’m curious to see of this means parents can sue for “child support” from sperm donors for the cost of keeping the “children” in frozen stasis?  Further, is it murder now if a power outage causes a freezer failure?

Ha ha, right? 

Pro-life positions make really, really bad public policy.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, TrackerNeil said:

I am sure the Republican Party is up to the challenge. 

A friend who lives in Alabama told me that Moore was challenged from the left in the primary, by Charlie Craddick, whose campaign slogan was "fry 'em till their eyeballs pop out."

[kissdbyfire]

40 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

Tells you how toxic some strands of Christianity are that they find recreational sex (which I'm assuming is sex for the sake of having sex because its pleasurable as opposed to procreation) reprehensible.

I don’t know much about Christianity but perhaps we can ask Bridget Ziegler? 

[SeanF]

9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I don’t know much about Christianity but perhaps we can ask Bridget Ziegler? 

To the pure, all things are pure.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

43 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Why do you think Biden has done an excellent job?  I am not a Biden hater, but I feel like it's a pretty mixed bag. 

He's actually done a surprisingly good job IMO even if I want someone a lot younger to replace him. I believe if we had a sane political system where Republicans would be good teammates that he could have gotten so much more done. But they're so cynical in their pursuit of power. Despite all that bullshit he's still been able to do a lot. 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

He's actually done a surprisingly good job IMO even if I want someone a lot younger to replace him. I believe if we had a sane political system where Republicans would be good teammates that he could have gotten so much more done. But they're so cynical in their pursuit of power. Despite all that bullshit he's still been able to do a lot. 

Similarly, given the slim Congressional majority he had to work with, it's impressive what he managed to accomplish. Some of it being bipartisan. He did a lot more than we all had assumed would be possible given the cards he was dealt.

[Zorral]

48 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

is it murder now if a power outage causes a freezer failure?

Act of god, like a tornado -- which does indeed often take out the power grid.  Unless, of course, the prosecutors can show, maybe, manslaughter, due to negligence of not having back-up generators?

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I’m curious to see of this means parents can sue for “child support” from sperm donors for the cost of keeping the “children” in frozen stasis?  Further, is it murder now if a power outage causes a freezer failure?

I doubt they've thought that far ahead.

[Maithanet]

4 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Similarly, given the slim Congressional majority he had to work with, it's impressive what he managed to accomplish. Some of it being bipartisan. He did a lot more than we all had assumed would be possible given the cards he was dealt.

I feel like a lot of the discussion with Biden is all a matter of context.  If you look at what he accomplished, given the slimmest senate majority (21-22) and a Republican House (23-24), yes, his legislative track record is pretty solid.  Likewise, he was handed a turd in terms of the economy, with COVID disruptions and the Ukraine war leading to inflation that he is still getting blamed for, in spite of the US doing basically the best of any developed economy.  On foreign policy, he had to deal with first the Afghan withdrawl (which was going to be a disaster any way you go) and now with Israel/Palestine, where there are no good answers and he again looks impotent and feckless. 

Basically Biden is relying heavily on voters to give him credit for context because the actual results aren't that great.  Inflation did hurt most Americans.  High interest rates make housing unaffordable.  COVID killed nearly a million Americans since Jan 2021.  A ton of problems like guns, climate change, immigration, wealth inequality, and college costs have had either band-aid solutions or no progress at all.  

I think it's fair to say that Biden did as well as could be reasonably expected, but...it still doesn't feel great.  The biggest political event of his presidency is the fall of Roe v Wade.  Obviously not his fault, but Biden didn't exactly manage a lot of big wins to counterbalance it.  Obama got gay marriage, ACA and killed Bin Laden.  Biden gave us...the Inflation Reduction Act and pardoned federal marijuana possession cases?

[Zorral]

What to know about the Alabama embryo ruling and its IVF implications

Shared/gift link:

https://wapo.st/3UHT0Lf

Quote

 

How does it affect the national debate around reproductive rights?

The ruling is the first of its kind, as no other state’s top court has ruled that frozen embryos are people in a wrongful-death lawsuit.

Abortion rights advocates said they had feared that such a ruling was the “natural” next step following the fall of Roe v. Wade.

“The foundation for this has long been laid, and we’re now seeing the real world implications of that sort of theoretical framing of ‘life,’” said Dana Sussman, the deputy executive director of Pregnancy Justice, a nonprofit focusing on the rights of pregnant people.

Antiabortion groups applauded the ruling, saying the decision was “backed up by basic science,” and called on other states to follow suit.

“Laws that allow the homicide of children in the womb through abortion violence violate equal protection and are unconstitutional,” said Lila Rose, founder of the antiabortion group Live Action. “The Alabama Supreme Court decision should be applauded and used as a model of honest and prudential jurisprudence nationwide.”

Sussman and Collura said they weren’t aware of similar cases making their way through other states’ top courts or bills advancing in statehouses. But they noted that what happens in one state can affect what happens in another.

“For many years, many states have tried to define a fertilized egg as a person, but such legislation did not make it far,” Collura said. “Now we have a case where a supreme court has declared them people, and this will change things.”

 

 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

I feel like a lot of the discussion with Biden is all a matter of context.  If you look at what he accomplished, given the slimmest senate majority (21-22) and a Republican House (23-24), yes, his legislative track record is pretty solid.  Likewise, he was handed a turd in terms of the economy, with COVID disruptions and the Ukraine war leading to inflation that he is still getting blamed for, in spite of the US doing basically the best of any developed economy.  On foreign policy, he had to deal with first the Afghan withdrawl (which was going to be a disaster any way you go) and now with Israel/Palestine, where there are no good answers and he again looks impotent and feckless. 

Basically Biden is relying heavily on voters to give him credit for context because the actual results aren't that great.  Inflation did hurt most Americans.  High interest rates make housing unaffordable.  COVID killed nearly a million Americans since Jan 2021.  A ton of problems like guns, climate change, immigration, wealth inequality, and college costs have had either band-aid solutions or no progress at all.  

I think it's fair to say that Biden did as well as could be reasonably expected, but...it still doesn't feel great.  The biggest political event of his presidency is the fall of Roe v Wade.  Obviously not his fault, but Biden didn't exactly manage a lot of big wins to counterbalance it.  Obama got gay marriage, ACA and killed Bin Laden.  Biden gave us...the Inflation Reduction Act and pardoned federal marijuana possession cases?

That's fair. There are different talents underlying campaigning and governing. It's clear Obama was the better campaigner, and arguably helped Democrats win more seats in Congress. I lean toward saying that Biden has proved more impressive than Obama at governance while in office, though perhaps he could have done even more if he had inspired enough voters to turn more seats around. There's also the fact that Biden was able to learn from Obama's term and apply that later on, whereas Obama's chance to learn was strictly during his time in office.

Unfortunately, it's campaigning that Biden needs to do to communicate his accomplishments and show people he's up to the job. It's not his strength by any means, so I am worried. Trump will provide plenty of contrast to make Joe seem like a normal, decent guy. But that's not enough. He needs to get out there and show people that he's an old but competent grandpa who addresses people's needs, and can do so even more with a second term.

[Fragile Bird]

I’m not going to be foolish enough to say I will never set foot in the uS again, but there are states I will definitely not visit. Like Alabama and Florida.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I’m not going to be foolish enough to say I will never set foot in the uS again, but there are states I will definitely not visit. Like Alabama and Florida.

Reminds of a Canadian joke (I just came up with). What's the difference between a fragile bird and snow bird.

The Fragile Bird has enough sense not to go to Florida.

If you don't get the joke, you didn't factor in the effect on the targeted audience. DMC screaming at his screen.