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Tywin Manderly

Who Pays the Coronaman? - Covid #8

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Posted (edited)

An ultra-orthodox Jewish community in a suburb of Montreal has been hard hit by Covid-19, mainly, it appears, because we didn't shut down the border with the US fast enough. Twenty members of the community went to NYC to celebrate Purim in early March. Being a tight-knit community, those people came back and have been spreading the virus. So far 40 test results have come back and 20 were positive, and there are many more tests in process.

The community wanted a lockdown (they all live in the same area, as they are tightly connected to their synagogue) which they could not do on their own, so they reached out to the police and between them have shut down a number of streets in the suburb. Community members are patrolling the streets to keep people in, with police stationed in cars in the area to act as back-up and support if needed.

I now add this community to the 'fucking idiots' list from the start of March: the 15,000 person dentistry convention in Vancouver, the 72 member doctor's curling bonspiel in Alberta and their 11 sick doctors, the snowmobilers club that had their group dinner for 110 in Saskatchewan after the province warned against large gatherings, and the champion super-spreader in Newfoundland who travelled outside the province (don't know where, possibly a cruise) returned home and attended two funerals and their wakes. 111 out of 149 [68 of the102 old number] people infected in Newfoundland trace back to this person.

"sighs"

People are stupid.

Edited by Fragile Bird

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I'm not interested in the difference in authoritarian governments and democratic ones, as I am in a decentralized versus centralized one. In my opinion, for a real emergency the patchwork state-by-state approach leaves much to be desired and is a real barrier when you have a virus that can easily cross state boundaries. At the same time, giving too power to the federal/central government has its perils (particularly with someone like Trump in charge).

Just spitballing here, but to play devil's advocate for my own point, the European nation's have been tackling this only a countr-by-country approach rather than a 'Euro' approach.

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Posted (edited)

And Virginia just issued a stay-at-home order through June 10th. I already wasn't planning on going anywhere for a while, but now its official.

I'm a little surprised that Northam didn't issue a shorter order and then extend it when the time came, as many other governors seem to be doing. Guess he's trying to take the tack of conveying just serious this all is.

ETA: I just remembered that Northam is an actual doctor too, and was still practicing as recently as 2016 I think (he was Lt. Gov, but that's not exactly a full time job in this state), so it could be he's also more clear-eyed about what the future looks like than some governors.

Edited by Fez

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Never seen a store that dead before. Only say two other shoppers. 

And they're running out of meat, or at least what they're displaying. And there will be no more seafood for a while.

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3 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

I went grocery shopping this morning, I stood in a line-up spaced out essentially by grocery cart lengths. Luckily they called out for seniors to go to the head of the line. Very limited entries.

When I got home I left the jugs of Tide and vinegar (I wash things that could get musty, like towels, with a cup of vinegar) and the 6 pack of tissue on the porch and headed for the bathroom, where I washed everything I bought in soapy water, or wiped down some things with a Lysol wipe, or transferred items to plastic containers (the strawberries, the cherry tomatoes, the mushrooms) or went to the kitchen and cut off packaging and let stuff drop into the sink (the cauliflower). The packaging has been dropped into my recycling box and then the box emptied into the recycling bin outside. Also, wiped down my telephone, because I used it to register my points card, and my car keys. Oh, and my debit card and my card case.

Then I took a couple of wipes and went outside to my car, wiping down the car door handle, the steering wheel, the turn signal, the shifter handle, the turn signal, the interior door handle, the button for the push start and the quarter I used in the shopping cart, because I wore latex gloves while in the store and who knows what I picked up.

On my way back into the house I wiped down the porch door handle, the screen door handle, the front door handle and then stepped in and wiped the door knob inside. Back to the bathroom, wipe down the faucet parts and the interior of the sink.

This routine is why my trips to the grocery store have been cut back sharply.

The stuff on the porch can either stay there a couple of days, or I will fill the sink with an inch of water and some Lysol and I will wash all the bottles. The tissue boxes can stay there for a few days.

I started this routine after reading this post by someone who had a bone marrow transplant and worked very hard to make sure they didn't die during the months needed to build up their immune system.

https://medium.com/@amcarter/i-had-no-immune-system-for-months-after-my-bone-marrow-transplant-1b097f16040c

We can't live like this for a significant amount of time. Otherwise we're all going to die by being crushed by all the used wipes! 

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There is another consideration that my own throat taught me:

Breathing these disinfectant solutions on wipes, bleach cleaners and others often in the day, even for short times, particularly in enclosed spaces like laundry rooms affects one's respiratory system.  Again, like the virus, smoke, perfume, exhaust, the particles hang in the hair even when no longer wiping down the machines before use. 

I've been disinfecting on a rota almost, bathroom and kitchen fixtures and the doors of course.  For the first time in about three weeks, having not gone out at all even to try and breathe due the gdd runners and cyclists who ride on the sidewalk right past our door, I didn't do that.  The sore throat and coughing (which clearly wasn't a c19 thing) went away.

I do not know if wearing a mask will help with that.  But in the end hot water and soap are the best for everything.

 

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Posted (edited)

I just checked worldometer, dear lord, what is going on in the US? They have over the double amount of infected as China.
And Italy and Spain... my god. If we ever get to travel again, my first trip will be to Italy to help to rebuild tourism with what little my trip can contribute :( 

Over here, we will probably hit 1000 by the weekend. Our partial lockdown resulted in more people being out on the streets because the order specified all the things that are allowed and now people feel justified. The bloody nail salon reopened(!). National news insists experts do see the flattening of the curve. I don’t know. In terms of closed cases, we have a 30% mortality rate. They always make it a priority to meticulously specify that the newly deceased was a very old person and/or had (often multiple) pre-existing, serve chronic conditions. 

Oh and if there wasn’t enough irony in this pandemic ordeal already, guess who sent us the first foreign fund? The American billionaire about whom we write our conspiracy theories. I hope a lot of people feel incredibly stupid right now. 

 

Edited by RhaenysBee

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7 hours ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

So here's a thought........they're now saying the rona could kill 100-200,000 people, here in the US.  With obesity accounting for roughly 300,000 deaths a year and tobacco killing almost 500,000 people a year in America, why not combat those issues with the daily numbers like they're are with the rona?

Because those are possible death numbers for Covid-19 with action taken to reduce the spread. If it had been completely ignored instead, the death toll could be 10-20 million.

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8 hours ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

So here's a thought........they're now saying the rona could kill 100-200,000 people, here in the US.  With obesity accounting for roughly 300,000 deaths a year and tobacco killing almost 500,000 people a year in America, why not combat those issues with the daily numbers like they're are with the rona?  People seem to be taking rona seriously, if we were hit with the tobacco and obesity numbers daily maybe they would resonate more?

Did you write this on your iPhone from a Spring Break beach?  

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10 hours ago, Ran said:

ETA: Have no problem believing that in Italy and France there are excess deaths not being counted as covid because of lack of testing and other factors. Retrospective analysis will clarify this. I don't believe there is any widespread governmental effort at a national evel in those countries to deliberately downplay numbers... well, not in France anyways. :P Regionally, I couldn't say.

According to the BBC the French seem to be using the same criteria as the UK: "The total death toll is now 3,024, although French officials only count those who die in hospitals."

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5 hours ago, Tears of Lys said:

Does anyone even READ my posts??  :P   I quoted a Detroit Free Press news article that basically said Detroit was "burning." 

As my husband and I are definitely in the at-risk group, you might say I'm a wee bit nervous.

 

And, yeah, a large number of people do use plastic for purchases, but there're still things that require cash to be handled.  

ETA:  C-19 germs are lurking on those keypads when you're entering pin numbers. 

I feel like I'm spending my downtime thinking of ways the Covid's gonna get me. :( 

Yes, that's why UK have encouraged contactless payments. (mine fixed itself today, for some reason). 

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1 hour ago, Triskele said:

Did you write this on your iPhone from a Spring Break beach?  

Absolutely, because my spouse and I working from home with our 2 year old son running around is basically spring break, right? However, I have never owned and iPhone, so no, I did not write that on an iPhone.  But your snarky response is greatly appreciated, thanks.

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  C-19 germs are lurking on those keypads when you're entering pin numbers. 

Do you have latex gloves?  Can you get them? Often one can do pin numbers, elevator numbers etc. with them on.  Carry a disposable wipe to wipe off the machine first, and your card after, and then your glove.  At home first thing after taking off your shoes, etc. wash the gloves while still on your hands with detergent and hot water, and then your hands without the gloves in soap and hot water.  Then start washing your purchases, if necessary.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

Absolutely, because my spouse and I working from home with our 2 year old son running around is basically spring break, right? However, I have never owned and iPhone, so no, I did not write that on an iPhone.  But your snarky response is greatly appreciated, thanks.

Well, in fairness, your post did sound like short-form phone texting. I mean, "the rona"? I was going to ask if that was a new sandwich being offered at Subway.

 

Edited by Fragile Bird

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30 minutes ago, Zorral said:

  C-19 germs are lurking on those keypads when you're entering pin numbers. 

Do you have latex gloves?  Can you get them? Often one can do pin numbers, elevator numbers etc. with them on.  Carry a disposable wipe to wipe off the machine first, and your card after, and then your glove.  At home first thing after taking off your shoes, etc. wash the gloves while still on your hands with detergent and hot water, and then your hands without the gloves in soap and hot water.  Then start washing your purchases, if necessary.

 

Is this really sustainable? 

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6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Is this really sustainable? 

 

No, you need to scrub your skin with bleach and then drink the bleach. Only way to be sure.

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9 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

 

No, you need to scrub your skin with bleach and then drink the bleach. Only way to be sure.

I wash you with a substance that kinda looks like bleach!

The throat too!!! 

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2 hours ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

Absolutely, because my spouse and I working from home with our 2 year old son running around is basically spring break, right? However, I have never owned and iPhone, so no, I did not write that on an iPhone.  But your snarky response is greatly appreciated, thanks.

Well, I did not believe in the sincerity of your question (which is to say that while you might be this clueless about "rona", I doubt you care much about these other issues you flagged).  

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, felice said:

Because those are possible death numbers for Covid-19 with action taken to reduce the spread. If it had been completely ignored instead, the death toll could be 10-20 million.

Seems a tad high.  The most recent fatality rates taking into account how many cases with mild or no symptoms are testing positive for coronavirus is .66%.  My guess is when the dust settles, that number's going to decrease even more because I think we are underestimating the number of people who have contracted the virus but who don't display significant symptoms.  I also think that's on the high side, because some of the increases in the fatality numbers are due to the fact that certain regions are seeing their medical infrasctructure overwhelmed, and people who would ordinarily be able to be treated successfully are not receiving the care they ordinarily would under usual circumstances.

But going with the .66% figure for now, and assuming that everyone in the United States contracts the virus you would be looking at a little over 2 million deaths.

Once again, just to remind everyone, the CDC and WHO organizations are primarily concerned with the impact that this virus will have on the ability for hospitals to handle the extra influx of patients.  The vast majority of those are going to be older with pre existing health conditions.  The hospitals don't have the equipment and the personnel to handle a huge influx of people all at once.  And because this is a new virus no one had developed any antibodies yet.

It's highly probable that over the course of the year many of us may come down with this virus and will be just fine even without any medical intervention.

Edited by Frey family reunion

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1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

 The vast majority of those are going to be older with pre existing health conditions.  

Is this still true?  Might depend on where one sets their cutoff for "vast majority.  But it sure seems like this was very much the claim in the early days but that as time has gone on it appears to be less heavily slanted towards the older than the early narrative suggested.

I've seen some recent suggestion that one of the pre-existing conditions that's a risk factor is, in addition to some of the oft-mentioned things like being immuno-suppressed or having bad lungs, is obesity.  If that's true would that not have potentially enormous implications for why some numbers could be looking worse post-China?  

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I am assuming that despite all of their economic growth that there's still much less obesity per capita in place Wuhan than in a place like NYC or London.  

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