Heartofice Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 I think that finale greatly improved my opinion of this season. Up to this point I was generally just wondering what the point of all this was. The story had sort of ground to a halt and was just moving in a very predictable direction. I was also mainly wondering why this needed to be a Loki show at all, there didn't seem to be anything about Loki that needed to be there for the story to work and the show was treating him like generic hero #1. But the finale seemed pretty much fix all of that. It tied up, literally, many of the threads from the finale last season, it served as a fitting ending to this story, but best of all it actually did something with Loki that moved his character forward and gave him an ending that seemed not only worthy of his character but of a god. Spoiler Him tying together all the time threads with his bare hands and sitting on a throne in the middle of the universe is maybe the most mythical and godly thing I have seen in the MCU, and the first time I've actually remembered he was supposed to be a god and not just a low level super baddie. I get the sense this season would have worked better as a 2.5 hour movie however, but that is maybe the case for a lot of the Disney+ MCU shows. Corvinus85 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrddin Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) The visual flip of the Loom at the end was amazing. It should've been so obvious given the mythological connections, but I didn't expect that. Well done. Edited November 10, 2023 by Myrddin IlyaP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Heartofice said: I think that finale greatly improved my opinion of this season. Up to this point I was generally just wondering what the point of all this was. The story had sort of ground to a halt and was just moving in a very predictable direction. I was also mainly wondering why this needed to be a Loki show at all, there didn't seem to be anything about Loki that needed to be there for the story to work and the show was treating him like generic hero #1. But the finale seemed pretty much fix all of that. It tied up, literally, many of the threads from the finale last season, it served as a fitting ending to this story, but best of all it actually did something with Loki that moved his character forward and gave him an ending that seemed not only worthy of his character but of a god. Hide contents Him tying together all the time threads with his bare hands and sitting on a throne in the middle of the universe is maybe the most mythical and godly thing I have seen in the MCU, and the first time I've actually remembered he was supposed to be a god and not just a low level super baddie. I get the sense this season would have worked better as a 2.5 hour movie however, but that is maybe the case for a lot of the Disney+ MCU shows. Spoiler Which is why I joked about the Silmarillion. Loki is a Frost Giant/Asgardian, but the climax worked better by imagining him having become an Eru Iluvatar type figure. Is Loki the most powerful being now in all creation? Heartofice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 12 hours ago, Kalbear said: It was really good! Not entirely sure what's going on at the end, but it was really good. That’s honestly my reaction too. I have no clue what happened but it was kinda cool regardless. Spoiler Loki creating what looks like Yiggdrasill out of the Timeline branches doesn’t make a lot of sense but it was kinda cool… Rhom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted November 10, 2023 Author Share Posted November 10, 2023 Yup, throughly enjoyed that. It really tied up the season and my initial impression is that it’s a fair way better than season 1. It’s probably my favourite season of D+ MCU shows, off the top of my head. It felt a lot like how they presented the ‘real’ Scarlet Witch and the end of WandaVision, finally getting the true Norse god Loki. So my interpretation is: Spoiler That he remade the timelines such that everyone does have free will, and there are alternate Kangs out there but the TVA’s task is now to prevent those Kangs from learning about the multiverse. They mentioned the Quantumania one I think, and checked that he hadn’t learnt about the TVA. Which leads pretty neatly into the next Avengers films, in that we have a manageable number of Kangs who are on the precipice of knowing enough to kick off a multiversal war. All that needs to happen is TVA operations get disrupted slightly and there could be issues for the Avengers, but not that entire room of Kangs we saw in QM who would currently wipe the floor with the them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denvek Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 On 11/9/2023 at 11:13 AM, IlyaP said: It's also very disposable, and to fully appreciate requires audiences to have seen WandaVision, Ms. Marvel, Secret Invasion, and Hawkeye, among others, which is not a sustainable narrative approach to these movies. They have to be able to stand on their own and not require viewing other things that might not even be interesting to viewers to fully appreciate and understand the story. I'd dispute that - I saw nothing in there that required Secret Invasion, and Hawkeye's only relevant to one credits scene (not the one already discussed). Even WandaVision's skippable - all of Monica's relevant backstory from there is explained during the film in what's probably enough detail. Spoiler And relating to the Hawkeye-relevant credits scene - Champions Disney+ series? mormont 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 What a great ending to Loki. Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 That was about as good a finale as anyone could ask for I think. I also liked that the title of the episode was the same as S1 Ep1. williamjm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Denvek said: I'd dispute that - I saw nothing in there that required Secret Invasion, and Hawkeye's only relevant to one credits scene (not the one already discussed). Even WandaVision's skippable - all of Monica's relevant backstory from there is explained during the film in what's probably enough detail. I figure, if you haven't seen Secret Invasion, which includes Saber, or Hawkeye, which includes Kate Bishop, or WandaVision, which includes Monica, you'd wonder at who/what all these things are. (Unless you're a comics geek like me who requires no explanation.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Rhom said: That was about as good a finale as anyone could ask for I think. I also liked that the title of the episode was the same as S1 Ep1. Just binged this in two sittings. That was a very satisfying conclusion, with emotionally resonant arcs for each character, and an outcome that thankfully did not resort to a cheap action sequence involving a sword fight, fisticuffs, or a shootout, but instead, took a more imaginative and cerebral approach. And all the while, Natalie Holt's score has complemented the on-screen imagery to help scenes achieve the emotional note that directors Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead and writer Eric Martin seemingly strove to achieve. It all looks so effortless on screen, yet the writer in me can't help but wonder how much time and effort Eric Martin and his staff put into structuring, plotting out, revising, and massaging the story until they reached a narrative place of personal creative satisfaction - one that would also, as Martin himself said, comprise a "full and complete story across two seasons". Myrddin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 Loki Season 2 was a bit gibberishy at times (it felt like an overheated Doctor Who episode at times) but the ending did pull things together in a way that made sense, that made Loki awesome again, and set up quite a few options for how they take things in the future. Also, I get the impression that the changes to how the timeline and the multiverse work now gives them a much better "out" on recasting Majors (and it did occur to me they could just do a Sylvie and bring in his female variants if they really don't want to do that for some reason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 I'd seen speculation that they'd do just that with Renslayer, but I don't think that fits too well with her character as seen so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 Yeah The Marvels wasn't that good. It had some good humor, random crazy shit, and a few good character moments but little to no character development. MCU's bad CGI trend continues. It was quite bad. I think the show Ms. Marvel had better CGI than this movie. The "short and sweet" description is incomplete - it's blessedly short and relatively sweet. Spoiler It had some moments which felt Farscape-like which I liked, the villain had a surprisingly decent motivation even if the evil plot execution borrowed from Spaceballs and looked stupid every time, and Star Trek Strange New Worlds did the musical number better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 (edited) I'm going to disagree there. The Marvels is IMO the best Marvel film I've seen for a while. Yes, better that GOTG3, for me anyway, which I also enjoyed, but had some flaws. (That, plus I'm just not that emotionally invested in either Peter Quill or Rocket. But I love Kamala and Carol and Monica.) The film isn't perfect, but it's fun. Iman Vellani and Kamala's family give it an emotional centre but in a way that includes Monica and Carol, and that's the best thing about it for me. I can understand that if you don't care for these characters, you might not rate it as highly, but I loved it. The worst CGI is undoubtedly Spoiler on Kelsey Grammer's Beast, which is awful. But as we have established, I'm just not as bothered by poor effects as others here. And the CGI certainly isn't all bad, some of it is stunning. As for Loki, I really like how it ended, I don't necessarily think that ending redeems the flaws of season 2. Edited November 11, 2023 by mormont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 8 minutes ago, mormont said: The film isn't perfect, but it's fun. Iman Vellani and Kamala's family give it an emotional centre but in a way that includes Monica and Carol, and that's the best thing about it for me. I can understand that if you don't care for these characters, you might not rate it as highly, but I loved it. Oh, I don't disagree with you on this. More of Kamala and her family would have been better, because what we got is not enough to make this a good movie, IMO. 9 minutes ago, mormont said: But as we have established, I'm just not as bothered by poor effects as others here. And the CGI certainly isn't all bad, some of it is stunning. The individual fight sequences had some good and creative camera work which helped hide the mediocre CGI. Every time the scenes went more grand, the CGI was bad. I didn't like the overuse of the Lovecraftian cats eating everything, either, because I just don't think it looks that good, even if it's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said: . I didn't like the overuse of the Lovecraftian cats eating everything, either, because I just don't think it looks that good, even if it's funny. Whoever chose the song for that scene deserves a massive bonus IlyaP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 I would say The Marvels had all their main characters and the villain show character development. Spoiler Carol's arc was about shame, following directly from her Captain Marvel storyline. Like a lot of people who get gaslit and trapped in relationships with abusers, she felt shame for having experienced it, and isolated herself and stayed away from the people she loved out of shame. She wanted to fix the galaxy out of sense of shame that she was inherently flawed, and wouldn't allow herself connection with others until she believe she could find some validation through acts of service. Her arc was about finally detaching from shame and operating with a healthier mindset. She learned connecting with others was a better way to find validation and see solutions more clearly. Monica's arc was about grief, following directly from her Wandavision storyline. She felt anger for her losing her mother while she was blipped, and diverted her attention from working through that by absorbing herself in work. Not handling her grief was making her cynical, unlike the kid she was. Meeting Kamala Khan who had elements of her childlike self, she felt the need to protect her. Doing so opened herself to empathy, and dissolve the hard outer shell she had developed, setting her up to begin the process of overcoming her grief. Kamala's arc was about having that childlike expectation that her heroes should always be able to win and save people from harm. She didn't view Carol as a person, but a character in a story, and emblem of hope. Meeting Carol, working side by side with her and Monica, taught her that hard choices had to be made some times, and that she needed to detach from her childhood narratives. Dar-ben's arc was about grief too, and anger. She had to detach from her anger to allow the one she blamed for her world's plight (despite their civil war doing to themselves) to save her world. It was the relationships between all these characters that lead to the resolution for each of them. Nothing about this was choppy, incoherent, or a mish-mash, or any of the other vague accusations I've seen claimed. Myrddin, Argonath Diver and mormont 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 21 hours ago, IlyaP said: I figure, if you haven't seen Secret Invasion, which includes Saber, or Hawkeye, which includes Kate Bishop, or WandaVision, which includes Monica, you'd wonder at who/what all these things are. (Unless you're a comics geek like me who requires no explanation.) I disagree - for a casual or movie-only viewer it’s clear enough that Saber is basically Shield in space, all they need to know from Wandavision is contained in Monica’s explanation to Carol of how she got her powers and the memory flashback scenes, and all they need to know about Kate Bishop is that she’s a young hero who Kamala’s trying to recruit for her new team. Sure, you’ll get more out of it if you have seen those shows (hello pizza dog) but there’s enough context given in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 3 hours ago, mormont said: I'm going to disagree there. The Marvels is IMO the best Marvel film I've seen for a while. Can't say I am in any way surprised by this comment. IlyaP and Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said: I would say The Marvels had all their main characters and the villain show character development. Hide contents Dar-ben's arc was about grief too, and anger. She had to detach from her anger to allow the one she blamed for her world's plight (despite their civil war doing to themselves) to save her world. Umm, no, it could have been that but she didn't do any of it. Spoiler She attempted to complete her villain plot and died a villain's death. She had maybe 1 second of pause when it looked she was losing when she considered an alternative, but that was it. Like I said before, her motivations were decent for a MCU villain, but her arc didn't feature any meaningful development. Edited November 11, 2023 by Corvinus85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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