Star Wars: You Must Be Over 18 (Midichlorians) To Enter

[Heartofice]

2 hours ago, mormont said:

It never really did make sense. Star Wars as a property is all about the visuals and the feelings and the cool shit, not about being coherent. 

The difference is that it's much harder to get away with not making any sense these days. Audiences are different, with different expectations, and it's not just kids. We can't use the excuse that the OT has some incoherence narratively just handwave away any problems with more recent movies. 

[IlyaP]

17 minutes ago, GallowKnight said:

Have you heard about our lord and savior Waru?

Why are you like this. 

[Myrddin]

22 hours ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

Sure, but Bran suuuuuuucked

But he had the best story.

[Corvinus85]

Back to Anakin's appearance at the end of the Ahsoka episode - He's not wearing his lightsaber which Luke inherits. He's wearing a darker saber. Vader's? Soooo yeah...

[Kalbear]

On TLJ and not having interest in following through - that was the dictation from above, IIRC. And was the pattern set by JJ. TFA is the real root cause of that problem; if you don't want to set up a trilogy, don't make things open-ended in your first movie. And DEFINITELY don't do it with zero plans involved for the greater trilogy arc. I'm not going to blame RJ for being given absolutely no specific direction or goals on the plot, being handed as literal a cliffhanger for an ending as we've seen in decades and then deciding to actually want to go a different way for the series. 

Trevorrow went and followed through on that viewpoint to quite a bit of success, IMO, with his screenplay. Seeing Ren realize that he is a loser and is not doing that great and thus seeking way more power to correct that makes him more of that threat, and having someone start good and go evil not because of just corruption or because of the heart at war with itself but because of genuine ambition is a different viewpoint at least, and I don't think we need to see the Skywalker line be particularly always good as long as Luke gets good treatment. But Disney didn't want that, so we didn't get it. 

[DaveSumm]

9 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Do you guys feel that George Lucas’s ST story treatments would’ve given us a better trilogy than the Disney ST?

With him writing? Or directing? Fuck no. Let’s not forget that the whole reason Abrams was hired was because they wanted a safe pair of hands to get things back on track as the prequels were, quite famously at this point, utter utter dogshit.

Come to think of it, wouldn’t all this have been better if they’d never called it Episode 7? All it really was was a gimmick to get people excited. The sequels are a fresh trilogy in the same universe, and whenever they feel obligated to actually act as sequels to Episodes 1-6, they’re all the poorer for it.

[polishgenius]

The prequels are dogshit in themselves but they created unbelievable amount of space and interest for people to tell other stories in the universe. The sequels did the opposite. 

 

So in that sense I have very little doubt that Lucas's ideas, whatever they were, would have been more interesting, though having someone else bring them to screen would probably have been preferable. 

[sifth]

I think Lucas wanted Darth Maul to be the main villain of his sequel films. So in a sense we would have gotten a villain returning form the grave.............which is usually always a stupid thing to do, IMO

[Kalbear]

4 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Come to think of it, wouldn’t all this have been better if they’d never called it Episode 7? All it really was was a gimmick to get people excited. The sequels are a fresh trilogy in the same universe, and whenever they feel obligated to actually act as sequels to Episodes 1-6, they’re all the poorer for it.

Oh gods, no. 

Doing a 'fresh' thing in Star Wars, after the prequel got shit on so hard for being super CGI and bad dialog and whatnot? No, the big push at the time was to go back to 'old school' and nostalgia. Should it have done that? Probably not! But Disney has repeatedly eschewed doing anything super new in favor of mining nostalgia for bucks. 

[dog-days]

Just now, sifth said:

I think Lucas wanted Darth Maul to be the main villain of his sequel films. So in a sense we would have gotten a villain returning form the grave.............which is usually always a stupid thing to do, IMO

I liked Maul in Rebels and sometimes in Clone Wars. But he's not really main villain material at all, at least not in the direction Filoni took him, where he's more of a supporting antagonist and a wildcard. I guess he didn't really have a personality in Phantom Menace so he could have acquired more proactive/big-picture qualities forty years on. But I wouldn't have trusted GL to write him. 

[sifth]

9 minutes ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

Oh gods, no. 

Doing a 'fresh' thing in Star Wars, after the prequel got shit on so hard for being super CGI and bad dialog and whatnot? No, the big push at the time was to go back to 'old school' and nostalgia. Should it have done that? Probably not! But Disney has repeatedly eschewed doing anything super new in favor of mining nostalgia for bucks. 

I think Lucas was most upset about was how little technology has advanced from the OT to the ST. You still have characters flying the exact same star ships, using the exact same guns and basically everything just looking as close to the OT as it possibly can.

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, sifth said:

I think Lucas was most upset about was how little technology has advanced from the OT to the ST. You still have characters flying the exact same star ships, using the exact same guns and basically everything just looking as close to the OT as it possibly can.

He wasn't upset about the technology. He didn't really care about the tech side. He just wanted things to be more fresh and different. I mean, tech didn't change really at all between the PT and OT, but we got a lot of different ships and different fighters and different vehicles. And Lucas really liked showing the design evolution - showing how we go from the Clone armor to stormtrooper armor, or clone fighters to tie fighters and star destroyers, or the clone walkers to AT-ATs. Or how you get, say, TIE Fighters in ANH and get bombers in TESB and interceptors in ROTJ. 

So what he wanted was, say, evolutions of xwings and tie fighters that showed that design ancestry but clearly did evolve. Because...that sells more toys!

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

3 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

With him writing? Or directing? Fuck no. Let’s not forget that the whole reason Abrams was hired was because they wanted a safe pair of hands to get things back on track as the prequels were, quite famously at this point, utter utter dogshit.

Come to think of it, wouldn’t all this have been better if they’d never called it Episode 7? All it really was was a gimmick to get people excited. The sequels are a fresh trilogy in the same universe, and whenever they feel obligated to actually act as sequels to Episodes 1-6, they’re all the poorer for it.

No, his story treatment, with the screenplay and direction by modern day Hollywood talent. Like the OT.He’d also be the executive producer. That’s what I mean.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II

[karaddin]

Yeah that rough pitch for what his ST would have been sounded pretty dogshit. Maybe something good would have emerged from it, but just from what I saw of it I don't think it turns out any better than the ST we got.

I'm with Kal on Trevorrow's script sounding like a solid attempt to actually follow TLJ rather than retcon it out of existence. The whole thing is just a remarkable case of utter failure by the studio to have any kind of plan for it to even be a trilogy. The fact they half assed something worth so much money is almost as enraging as the fact that despite this mismanagement they've still made a fuckload of money from buying the IP.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

3 hours ago, karaddin said:

Yeah that rough pitch for what his ST would have been sounded pretty dogshit. Maybe something good would have emerged from it, but just from what I saw of it I don't think it turns out any better than the ST we got.

I'm with Kal on Trevorrow's script sounding like a solid attempt to actually follow TLJ rather than retcon it out of existence. The whole thing is just a remarkable case of utter failure by the studio to have any kind of plan for it to even be a trilogy. The fact they half assed something worth so much money is almost as enraging as the fact that despite this mismanagement they've still made a fuckload of money from buying the IP.

But if his ideas are so terrible then why are most of the tv shows, merchandising ,characters etc still based around movies 1-6 and the clone wars ? Ahsoka was also from CW. I don’t see Disney rushing off to make a Poe Dameron or Finn spin off anytime soon. They even reused Lucas’s big baddie and his iconic evil dialogue. I think I would’ve preferred a different, less derivative ST. Anyways, no point in crying about spilt milk now… 

 

I agree that Ray Stevenson is the best part of Ahsoka. I actually didn’t recognise him as Pullo until someone here pointed it out. Kudos to the acting ! I hope his character managed to get a complete arc this season itself, really sucks he’s no longer with us, such a brilliant, talented man

Edited September 9, 2023 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II

[karaddin]

Where did I criticise all of his ideas? I'm talking about specific ideas I didn't like based on memory from several years ago - that the sequel would go onto your microscopic level with the whills and stuff. That's very different from saying all his ideas suck.

I think the prequels had some solid ideas and set up the board for some interesting stories, but the execution wasn't there. He works best as part of a team with others covering dialogue, directing etc. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

7 hours ago, polishgenius said:

The prequels are dogshit in themselves…

 

7 hours ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

…after the prequel got shit on…

 

59 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I think the prequels…

I love you all. 

[Ran]

I feel like we don't really know much about Lucas's story for the sequel, beyond some vague stuff and that basically what he told Mark Hamill about Luke's story contributed to Hamill's displeasure with how Johnson depicted Luke. 

I think Lucas is kind of one of those all-time idea guys, but you have to sort through a lot of dross to pick out the gold. His story treatment followed by some top-notch, William Goldman-esque writing would, no doubt, have worked as well as anything else could, and would have had the added imprimatur of having its genesis in the mind of the creator. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

On 9/5/2023 at 10:34 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Ray Stevenson was an incredibly good actor.  He had such presence.  I’m sorry he’s passed…

I'm sure I saw one website that reported his passing and said, "Best known for his role as Volstagg in the MCU."

"Volstagg"?!? THIRTEEN!!!

On 9/7/2023 at 7:15 AM, Corvinus85 said:

Big episode next week?

 

OHMYGawd. I just got this terrible feeling that Anakin is coming out of the whatchamacallit realm. Like, physically. I guess that means we'll forget about the prequels for a few days... 

Batten down the hatches because the nerds are going to be shtting themselves. The rage. The shit posting. Sweet Jesus, the fights.

[mormont]

10 hours ago, polishgenius said:

The prequels are dogshit in themselves but they created unbelievable amount of space and interest for people to tell other stories in the universe. The sequels did the opposite.

I'm not sure there's any solid evidence for either part of this assertion.

2 hours ago, Ran said:

I think Lucas is kind of one of those all-time idea guys, but you have to sort through a lot of dross to pick out the gold.

I think also that the difference between a good writer and a great one is the ability to recognise the dross, either yourself or when an editor or collaborator points it out. Lucas struggled with that.