Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Jon Weirgaryen

R+L=J v.94

Recommended Posts

Reference guide

The Tower of the Hand has an excellent analysis of this theory:
Jon Snow's Parents

And Westeros' Citadel also provides a summary:
Jon Snow's Parents

A Wiki of Ice and Fire:
Jon Snow Theories


Frequently Asked Questions:

How can Jon be a Targaryen if he has a burned hand?
Targaryens are not immune to fire. Aerion Brightflame died drinking wildfire. Aegon V and his son Duncan are thought to have died in a fire-related event at Summerhall. Rhaenyra was eaten by Aegon II's dragon, presumably roasted by fire before the dragon took a bite. Viserys died when he was crowned with molten gold. Dany suffered burns from the fire pit incident at the end of A Dance with Dragons. Finally, the author has stated outright that Targaryens are not immune to fire. Jon's burned hand does not mean he is ineligible to be part Targaryen. For more information about the myth of Targaryen fire immunity, see this thread.

How can Jon be a Targ if he doesn't have silver hair and purple eyes?
Not all Targaryens had the typical Valyrian look. Alysanne had blue eyes. Baelor Breakspear and his son(s) had the Dornish look. Some of the Great Bastards did not have typical Valyrian features. Jon's own half-sister Rhaenys had her mother's Dornish look.

If Jon isn't Ned's son, then why does he look so much like him?
Much is made over the fact that Arya looks like Lyanna, and Jon looks like Arya. Ned and Lyanna shared similar looks.

How can Jon be half-Targ if he has a direwolf?
Ned's trueborn children are half Stark and half Tully. Being half Tully didn't prevent them from having a direwolf so there is no reason to think being half Targaryen would prevent Jon from having a direwolf. If Lyanna is his mother, then he's still half Stark. Furthermore, there is already a character who is half Targaryen and half blood of the First Men and was a skinchanger: Bloodraven.

Since Rhaegar was already married, wouldn't Jon still be a bastard?
The evidence that Jon is legitimate is that Targaryens have a history of polygamous marriages which makes it a possibility that Rhaegar had two wives. Three Kingsguards were present at the Tower of Joy when Ned arrived. Even after Ned said that Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon were dead and Viserys had fled to Dragonstone, the Kingsguard opted to stay at the Tower of Joy stating they were obeying their Kingsguard vow. The heart of a Kingsguard's vow is to protect the king. With Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon dead, the new king would have been Viserys, unless Lyanna's child was legitimate making him the new king of the Targaryen dynasty.
For a comprehensive analysis of Jon's legitimacy, see the detailed explanations in the two linked articles.

But polygamy hadn't been practiced in centuries, is it still even legal?
The practice was never made illegal and there may have been some less prominent examples after Maegor, as stated in this SSM. Furthermore, Jorah suggests it to Dany as a viable option.

Weren't the Kingsguard at Tower of Joy on the basis of an order from Aerys, to guard Lyanna as a hostage?
Aerys was sane enough to realize how taking someone hostage works even at the end of the Rebellion, and he would hardly miss the opportunity to bring Ned and Robert in line any time after the situation started to look really serious.
Furthermore, regardless of on whose order the Kingsguard might have stayed at Tower of Joy, they would still be in dereliction of their duty to guard the new king.

This theory is too obvious and too many people believe it to be fact. How can it be true?
The theory is not obvious to the majority of readers. Some will get it on first read, most will not. Keep in mind that readers who go to online fan forums, such as this one, represent a very small minority of the A Song of Ice and Fire readership. Also, A Game of Thrones has been out since 1996. That's more than 17 years of readers being able to piece together this mystery.

Why doesn't Ned ever think about Lyanna being Jon's mother?
Ned doesn't think about anyone as being his mother. He says the name 'Wylla' to Robert, but does not actively think that Wylla is the mother. He also doesn't think of Jon as his son. There are numerous mysteries in the series, and Jon's parentage is one of those. If Ned thought about Jon being Lyanna's son, it would not be a mystery.

Why should we care who Jon's parents are? Will Jon care? Who cares if he's legitimate?
Once one accepts that the evidence is conclusive and that Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna and that he is most probably legitimate, these become the important questions.

Previous editions:

Please click on the spoiler below to reveal links to all previous editions of this thread.

Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread one)

Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread two)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part III)” (thread three)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part IV)” (thread four)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part V)” (thread five)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part VI)” (thread six)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Thread Part VII” (thread seven)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part VIII” (thread eight)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part IX” (thread nine)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna =Jon Thread, Part X”(thread ten)

The R+L=J thread, part XI” (thread eleven)

The R+L=J thread, part XII” (thread twelve)

R+L=J Part XXIII” (thread thirteen)

R+L=J Part XXIV” (thread fourteen)

R+L=J XXV” (thread fifteen)

R+L=J v.16” (thread sixteen)

R+L=J v.17” (thread seventeen)

R+L=J v.18” (thread eighteen)

R+L=J v.19” (thread nineteen)

R+L=J v.20” (thread twenty)

R+L=J v.21” (thread twenty-one)

R+L=J v.22” (thread twenty-two)

R+L=J v.22a” (thread twenty-two (a))

R+L=J v.23” (thread twenty-three)

R+L=J v.24” (thread twenty-four)

R+L=J v.25” (thread twenty-five)

R+L=J v.26” (thread twenty-six)

R+L=J v.27” (thread twenty-seven)

R+L=J v.28” (thread twenty-eight)

R+L=J v.29” (thread twenty-nine)

R+L=J v.30” (thread thirty)

R+L=J v.31” (thread thirty-one)

R+L=J v.32” (thread thirty-two)

R+L=J v.33” (thread thirty-three)

R+L=J v.34” (thread thirty-four)

R+L=J v.35” (thread thirty-five)

R+L=J v.36” (thread thirty-six)

R+L=J v.37” (thread thirty-seven)

R+L=J v.38” (thread thirty-eight)

R+L=J v.39” (thread thirty-nine)

"R+L=J v.40" (thread forty)

"R+L=J v.41" (thread forty-one)

"R+L=J v.42" (thread forty-two)

"R+L=J v.43" (thread forty-three)

"R+L=J v.44" (thread forty-four)

"R+L=J v.45" (thread forty-five)

"R+L=J v.46" (thread forty-six)

"R+L=J v.47" (thread forty-seven)

"R+L=J v.48" (thread forty-eight)

"R+L=J v.49" (thread forty-nine)

"R+L=J v.50" (thread fifty)

"R+L=J v.51" (thread fifty-one)

"R+L=J v.52" (thread fifty-two)

"R+L=J v.53" (thread fifty-three)

"R+L=J v.54" (thread fifty-four)

"R+L=J v.55" (thread fifty-five)

"R+L=J v.56" (thread fifty-six)

"R+L=J v.57" (thread fifty-seven)

"R+L=J v.58" (thread fifty-eight)

"R+L=J v.59" (thread fifty-nine)

"R+L=J v.60" (thread sixty)

"R+L=J v.61" (thread sixty-one)

"R+L=J v.62" (thread sixty-two)

"R+L=J v.63" (thread sixty-three)

"R+L=J v.64" (thread sixty-four)

"R+L=J v.65" (thread sixty-five)

"R+L=J v.66" (thread sixty-six)

"R+L=J v.67" (thread sixty-seven)

"R+L=J v.68" (thread sixty-eight)

"R+L=J v.69" (thread sixty-nine)

"R+L=J v.70" (thread seventy)
"R+L=J v.71" (thread seventy-one)

"R+L=J v.72" (thread seventy-two)

"R+L=J v.73" (thread seventy-three)

"R+L=J v.74" (thread seventy-four)

"R+L=J v.75" (thread seventy-five)

"R+L=J v.76" (thread seventy-six)

"R+L=J v.77" (thread seventy-seven)

"R+L=J v.78" (thread seventy-eight)

"R+L=J v.79" (thread seventy-nine)

"R+L=J v.80" (thread eighty)

"R+L=J v.81" (thread eighty-one)

"R+L=J v.82" (thread eighty-two)

"R+L=J v.83" (thread eighty-three)

"R+L=J v.84" (thread eighty-four)

"R+L=J v.85" (thread eighty-five)

"R+L=J v.86" (thread eighty-six)

"R+L=J v.87" (thread eighty-seven)

"R+L=J v.88" (thread eighty-eight)

"R+L=J v.89" (thread eighty-nine)

"R+L=J v.90" (thread ninety)

"R+L=J v.91" (thread ninety-one)

"R+L=J v.92" (thread ninety-two)

"R+L=J v.93" (thread ninety-three)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll just repost my last post in pervious thread:



You know, this whole Lyanna being in the Riverlands between between the tourney and the Lyanna-napping never occurred to me. Which is too bad, because it solves a lot of problems.



Maybe Robert got into the betrothal for political reasons (Jon Arryn's advice, southeron ambitions, what not) then met up at or a little before the tourney (maybe Lyanna and Benjen met up with Ned, Bob, and Jon at Gulltown or something, then went to Harrenhall together, giving them a chance to get to know each other).



Who the hell knows.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KG Part: Aerys didn't order Hightower to remain their to guard Lyanna, just get Rhaegar. As to the hostage theory, it doesn't make sense at all, Lyanna is not even at KL, how the hell Aerys bringing anyone in line when know one knows Aerys has her hostage or where? And why wouldn't he send men to tell Robert and Ned prebattle, that is huge.



Now: Other parts to it, KG can only obey their king when it comes to who to protect. So says Barristan. Call him less honorable because Ned respected Dayne, but he respected them just as much as Barristan, who so many call traitor.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whoa. New thread. And here we float until pinned.



My last response: I don't think Robert paid attention to Lyanna. He spent most of HH either fighting or drinking. Lyanna's suspicions about him were confirmed at the tourney.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re-posting my response from v.93:

Contrarian (I gave examples and reasons before)?

Here are some things that E+L fits, that R + L does not.
- J looks more like Ned than Robb does
- Ned is wracked with guilt about Lyanna's death (he's taking care of L + R's son and doing a good job of it. So why all the guilt?)
- Jon is in WF. The known Targ heirs have been collected by Varys and are living in Essos.
- Varys shows no interest in Jon that we know of
- Jon is a strong Warg
- like Ned, he passes the sentence and wields the sword (Janos Slynt)
- provides possible explanation for the non-appearance and non-mention of Ned's mother, Lyarra (that she was angry with Ned over Lyanna's death and could not abide Jon - the product of that incest. So she went back to her Flynt kin in the hills)

Oh, come on. How do these thing not fit with R+L?

- Jon and Arya look alike; they look like Ned and Lyanna

- he fought a war, lost his family and friends, and all for nothing because Lyanna died, as well, and dying swore him to committing treason and hurting his wife. Enough to haunt a man.

- what Varys doesn't know, he cannot collect. This is a non-issue

- see above

- Ned was not a warg, while Lyanna's superb riding skills suggest that she might have been one.

- that trait is not inherited but learned

- or she died some time after Benjen was born, or had other non-convoluted reasons to disapepar

these work with R+L, but better with E+L, I would say:

- possible explanation why Howland Reed does not show up to this point (he was close to Lyanna and was distraught by what happened to her and by Ned's role in it. Also could not abide the site of Jon and how much he looks like his mom.)

- Ned gets so testy with Cat when she asked him about Ned & Ashara and Jon.

all this could be camouflage to make him look like a 100% Stark - or he could actually be a 100% Stark.

- there is zero indication of any resentment towards Ned on HR's part

- he is actively committing treason and the leak of secrecy would get Jon killed

Also, note that Ned says "he is my blood", not "my son", if it were the case.

The timeline is virtually unknown.

When she was kidnapped, whether she was kidnapped, from where etc, etc. For all we know, Ned found a way to meet her again before Rhaegar finally got her to the toj (which I've said before strikes me as a safe location only from Ned). Maybe Ned quietly met Lyanna in KL while Brandon was bellowing at the gate. Doesn't seem like stealth is Ned's style exactly, but who knows?

Sorry but no. Just no. You're arguing something that goes totally against Ned's characterisation as well as against good storytelling. If there was something between Ned and Lyanna, we would have seen some clues, and there are none.

As for "eeewww" factor, how did all of you who have a problem with thought Lyanna & Ned get past Jamie & Cersei in AGOT? Specifically, Bran 2, p.84 of AGOT - a nice scene of brother and sister (twins) making love. You didn't drop the book at that point (not to mention at all the Targaryen incest), so why the squeamishness with Ned and Lyanna? btw Rickard & Lyarra were cousins.

The eeeewww factor is making Ned incestuous, who apparently has no such tendencies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The timeline is virtually unknown.

When she was kidnapped, whether she was kidnapped, from where etc, etc. For all we know, Ned found a way to meet her again before Rhaegar finally got her to the toj (which I've said before strikes me as a safe location only from Ned). Maybe Ned quietly met Lyanna in KL while Brandon was bellowing at the gate. Doesn't seem like stealth is Ned's style exactly, but who knows?

We might not know the timeline for Lyanna, but we do know the timeline for Ned: He was at the Eyrie, and from the Eyrie made the long way north, from where he went to the Riverlands to fight the Battle of the Bells.

So no, Ned did not meet Lyanna quietly in KL while Brandon was bellowing at the gate.. Also, should this be the argument that this is the moment that N impregnated L, it seems that Lyanna was pregnant for quite a long time, then... around 12 months...

Timeline...

I don't see these as trollish questions at all. Whether you ultimately discard the idea of Ned & Lyanna as Jon's parents, I think it's as legitimate a question (in the abstract) as asking whether R + L are his parents.

It's not the questions necessarily people find trollish, but the manner in which they are asked (not directing this at your questions personally, I'm talking about such type of questions in general).

Asking such questions in a normal way, and handeling the answers in a normal way, leads to patient answers, and willingness to go into depth about it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bump)



Working on the Robert-Lyanna arranged marriage timeline....



it may have been tentative or not publicly announced at the ToH.



It is hard to reconcile Robert's personality without thinking that Robert would want to see a woman before.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry but no. Just no. You're arguing something that goes totally against Ned's characterisation as well as against good storytelling. If there was something between Ned and Lyanna, we would have seen some clues, and there are none.

This is really all that needs to be said, IMO. Ned would never ever commit incest.

Thanks to MntLion who put up a timeline in our other thread (that is still alive...lol)

  • Mya Stone was born just before the tourney
  • Ned went directly from the Eyrie to Harrenhal
  • It appears that Robert met Lyanna after the first night of the tourney, since he was in a war of cups that night and had no interest in Lyanna or Ned
  • After the tourney (false spring, winter is coming) Ned and Lyanna are in Winterfell together, they talk about Mya
  • That is the same day that Rickard had given consent for Robert's offer
  • After the winter, Brandon left Winterfell to answer Petyr's challenge (SSM)

ETA: can I ask how we're getting Mya born right before the Tourney? I thought maybe a year before hand?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... our other thread (that is still alive...lol)

That's what could happen when Jon Weirgaryen was trying very hard to be clever: Create the new thread and mention it with a hyperlink to be pinned in the report for the >400 post old thread. Save the mods some work, so I thought. Only I forgot the mods aren't very active in the EU afternoon/US morning hours. Anyway, it will be all right in the end.

Still it allows for quoting tricks that wouldn't work so well otherwise:

The timeline I gave earlier in this thread is accurate. There are embedded snippets of quotes that you can search for in the text:

That must have been in some previous thread, I have been going through all of v.93 looking for the quotes, and only found this bit:

I track the timeline around Harrenhal for a reason. Jaime was 15 when he took his white cloak, and 17 when he slew Aerys. Rhaenys was very near her third nameday when she was killed. Aegon was about one year old when slain. Robb is about a fortnight older than Jon. Jon is 8 to 9 months older than Daenerys, who was conceived a fortnight before the sack. Elia was bedridden for six months after Rhaenys' birth. Harrenhal was in the year of the False Spring, suggesting a period of winter followed, and likely close to a full year of winter. Ned talked with Lyanna, at Winterfell, after Harrenhal; because he went directly from the Eyrie to Harrenhal. Leading to a conclusion that all of the Stark family wintered in Winterfell. After the winter Brandon went to Riverrun to answer Petyr's challenge. A short time later he is returning from his errand when he makes his hasty run for King's Landing.

All, just off the top of my head.

v.93#116

Anyway, this is possible, but it isn't entirely convincing against the arguments others have given for their intrepretation:

The timeline I gave earlier in this thread is accurate. There are embedded snippets of quotes that you can search for in the text:

  • Mya Stone was born just before the tourney

Ned went directly from the Eyrie to Harrenhal

It appears that Robert met Lyanna after the first night of the tourney, since he was in a war of cups that night and had no interest in Lyanna or Ned

After the tourney (false spring, winter is coming) Ned and Lyanna are in Winterfell together, they talk about Mya

That is the same day that Rickard had given consent for Robert's offer

After the winter, Brandon left Winterfell to answer Petyr's challenge (SSM)

And adding this bit to it:

With the, 'after winter, Brandon left Winterfell to answer Petyr's challenge.' Say Ned traveled south with Brandon, only Ned turned East to go to the Vale. That time in WF and then the trip south would have given time for Brandon to talk “Often, and with some heat,” about Petyr to Ned.

We now have two quite reasonable timelines, as I see it. Both have convincing arguments pro themselves and against the other. Some people are convinced of the betrothal before and some of the betrothal after the Tourney. Hmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

94? Really?

Alright. Two things:

1. I'm sure I've read a discussion about this here, so a short answer will do. Could Ashara Dayne have been Brandon's contact for revelation of Lyanna's "abductor", his identity?

2. Isn't it possible that Maester Pycelle told the royals that another child would kill Elia on the orders of Lord Tywin? That he exaggerated her frailty in order to ... I dunno, make way for the marriage to be annulled? That would assume Tywin knew of Rhaegar's obsession with the prophecy of the three heads of the dragon. Maybe to slowly poison her and make her death seem natural? The purpose being with to avenge himself on both Aerys and the Martells or to put Cersei's suit forward once more. It sounds a bit far fetched but there is definitely a possibility that e revenge motive holds out. I've wondered often what Tywin had planned as vengeance against Aerys and/or the Martells. After all, he didn't plan on Robert's Rebellion going down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2. Isn't it possible that Maester Pycelle told the royals that another child would kill Elia on the orders of Lord Tywin? That he exaggerated her frailty in order to ... I dunno, make way for the marriage to be annulled? That would assume Tywin knew of Rhaegar's obsession with the prophecy of the three heads of the dragon. Maybe to slowly poison her and make her death seem natural? The purpose being with to avenge himself on both Aerys and the Martells or to put Cersei's suit forward once more. It sounds a bit far fetched but there is definitely a possibility that e revenge motive holds out. I've wondered often what Tywin had planned as vengeance against Aerys and/or the Martells. After all, he didn't plan on Robert's Rebellion going down.

Yes, it is. Some time ago, it was discussed in the thread what Tyrion might have meant when he accused Pycelle of betraying Rhaegar, and Elia's health was one option (tampering with Rhaegar's correspondence was another).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. I'm sure I've read a discussion about this here, so a short answer will do. Could Ashara Dayne have been Brandon's contact for revelation of Lyanna's "abductor", his identity?

Anyone who was around could have been - was Ashara around?

2. Isn't it possible that Maester Pycelle told the royals that another child would kill Elia on the orders of Lord Tywin? That he exaggerated her frailty in order to [...]

I deliberately cut the rest of the speculation. I sometimes think that not only Pycelle alone but the maesters of the citadel as an organization might have plotted something there. But apart from the thought I have nothing in the text to go on with... making this crackpottery. Still the thought returns.

Now there's always someone who knows more...:

Some time ago, it was discussed in the thread what Tyrion might have meant when he accused Pycelle of betraying Rhaegar, and Elia's health was one option (tampering with Rhaegar's correspondence was another).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re-posting my response from v.93:

Oh, come on. How do these thing not fit with R+L?

- Jon and Arya look alike; they look like Ned and Lyanna

- he fought a war, lost his family and friends, and all for nothing because Lyanna died, as well, and dying swore him to committing treason and hurting his wife. Enough to haunt a man.

- what Varys doesn't know, he cannot collect. This is a non-issue

- see above

- Ned was not a warg, while Lyanna's superb riding skills suggest that she might have been one.

- that trait is not inherited but learned

- or she died some time after Benjen was born, or had other non-convoluted reasons to disapepar

- there is zero indication of any resentment towards Ned on HR's part

- he is actively committing treason and the leak of secrecy would get Jon killed

Also, note that Ned says "he is my blood", not "my son", if it were the case.

Sorry but no. Just no. You're arguing something that goes totally against Ned's characterisation as well as against good storytelling. If there was something between Ned and Lyanna, we would have seen some clues, and there are none.

The eeeewww factor is making Ned incestuous, who apparently has no such tendencies.

Not to mention Rhaegar+KGs babysitting a pregnant Lyanna and her incestuous fruit for a good part of a

year...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, it is. Some time ago, it was discussed in the thread what Tyrion might have meant when he accused Pycelle of betraying Rhaegar, and Elia's health was one option (tampering with Rhaegar's correspondence was another).

If that were true then it would go a long way of explaining why Elia looked so hale and healthy in Dany's vision at the HotU.

Not to mention Rhaegar+KGs babysitting a pregnant Lyanna and her incestuous fruit for a good part of a

year...

Agreed. Timeline plus Ned's own character really just throws E+L = J right out the window.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not think Ned would go far as incest with Lyanna.

Events that happened after the tourney:

Starks go back to Winterfell.

Targrayens go back to King's Landing.

Lyanna and Rhaegar began to message each other (if it is true).

Robert and Ned go to the Eyrie to Jon Arryn. (Mya Stone is born around this time).

Aegon is born. Elia is told that she could not have anymore children due to being sickly.

Rhaegar knows that there is one more child for him to have three heads of the dragon.

Brandon and Catelyn get engaged to each other. LF has a sissy fit about it and challenges Brandon for Cat's hand in marriage. LF loses. Brandon keeps Catelyn's hand in marriage. LF becomes bitter. (Lysa goes after him and later gets promised to Jon Arryn.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, it is. Some time ago, it was discussed in the thread what Tyrion might have meant when he accused Pycelle of betraying Rhaegar, and Elia's health was one option (tampering with Rhaegar's correspondence was another).

'Some time ago' on this thread is a relative term since this has moved into it's 94th version very fast indeed. :-)

But I get what you're saying and I'm going to reread Tyrion, ACOK.

@Jon Weirgaryen. I guess it could have been Varys or even Pycelle to spread discord. I was thinking more of what Ashara's suicide could imply part from all the other reasons discussed. People do tend to have multiple reasons for doing stuff. She could have felt that Brandon's death was her own fault. Even if she wasn't around at KL when some form of confirmation came, maybe from her brother, or maybe she knew beforehand who 'took' Lyanna, she replied to Brandon's query about the whereabouts of his sister when he learned she had disappeared. I realise this is mostly speculation. If, however, Ashara was pregnant and in Starfall when Brandon communicated with her, there is still a great possibility that she knew about Rhaegar being the reason Lyanna disappeared, and told him. I really need to reread the timeline. But she, at least would be using ravens, KL or Starfall.

All of this hinges on how many people in the south knew it was Rhaegar that Lyanna ran off with. Speculation, speculation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not think Ned would go far as incest with Lyanna.

Events that happened after the tourney:

Starks go back to Winterfell.

Targrayens go back to King's Landing.

Lyanna and Rhaegar began to message each other (if it is true).

Robert and Ned go to the Eyrie to Jon Arryn. (Mya Stone is born around this time).

Aegon is born. Elia is told that she could not have anymore children due to being sickly.

Rhaegar knows that there is one more child for him to have three heads of the dragon.

Brandon and Catelyn get engaged to each other. LF has a sissy fit about it and challenges Brandon for Cat's hand in marriage. LF loses. Brandon keeps Catelyn's hand in marriage. LF becomes bitter. (Lysa goes after him and later gets promised to Jon Arryn.)

Tourney =281AC

Mya's birth = 279AC or 280AC..

As since Game, Catelyn was 12 when she was betrothed to Brandon. With her birth in 264AC, that betrothal took place in either 276AC or 277AC. In 281/282, the actual weddingdate was announced, which is what sparked LFs duel with Brandon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tourney =281AC

Mya's birth = 279AC or 280AC..

As since Game, Catelyn was 12 when she was betrothed to Brandon. With her birth in 264AC, that betrothal took place in either 276AC or 277AC. In 281/282, the actual weddingdate was announced, which is what sparked LFs duel with Brandon

And those dates it makes me think that Ned and Lyanna's talk about Robert was before Harrenhal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And those dates it makes me think that Ned and Lyanna's talk about Robert was before Harrenhal.

Could very well be. As I said earlier, I have included that possibility in my thoughts again. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×