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Jon Weirgaryen

R+L=J v100

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Reference guide

The Tower of the Hand has an excellent analysis of this theory:
Jon Snow's Parents

And Westeros' Citadel also provides a summary:
Jon Snow's Parents

A Wiki of Ice and Fire:
Jon Snow Theories


Frequently Asked Questions:

How can Jon be a Targaryen if he has a burned hand?
Targaryens are not immune to fire. Aerion Brightflame died drinking wildfire. Aegon V and his son Duncan are thought to have died in a fire-related event at Summerhall. Rhaenyra was eaten by Aegon II's dragon, presumably roasted by fire before the dragon took a bite. Viserys died when he was crowned with molten gold. Dany suffered burns from the fire pit incident at the end of A Dance with Dragons. Finally, the author has stated outright that Targaryens are not immune to fire. Jon's burned hand does not mean he is ineligible to be part Targaryen. For more information about the myth of Targaryen fire immunity, see this thread.

How can Jon be a Targ if he doesn't have silver hair and purple eyes?
Not all Targaryens had the typical Valyrian look. Alysanne had blue eyes. Baelor Breakspear and his son(s) had the Dornish look. Some of the Great Bastards did not have typical Valyrian features. Jon's own half-sister Rhaenys had her mother's Dornish look.

If Jon isn't Ned's son, then why does he look so much like him?
Much is made over the fact that Arya looks like Lyanna, and Jon looks like Arya. Ned and Lyanna shared similar looks.

How can Jon be half-Targ if he has a direwolf?
Ned's trueborn children are half Stark and half Tully. Being half Tully didn't prevent them from having a direwolf so there is no reason to think being half Targaryen would prevent Jon from having a direwolf. If Lyanna is his mother, then he's still half Stark. Furthermore, there is already a character who is half Targaryen and half blood of the First Men and was a skinchanger: Bloodraven.

Since Rhaegar was already married, wouldn't Jon still be a bastard?
The evidence that Jon is legitimate is that Targaryens have a history of polygamous marriages which makes it a possibility that Rhaegar had two wives. Three Kingsguards were present at the Tower of Joy when Ned arrived. Even after Ned said that Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon were dead and Viserys had fled to Dragonstone, the Kingsguard opted to stay at the Tower of Joy stating they were obeying their Kingsguard vow. The heart of a Kingsguard's vow is to protect the king. With Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon dead, the new king would have been Viserys, unless Lyanna's child was legitimate making him the new king of the Targaryen dynasty.
For a comprehensive analysis of Jon's legitimacy, see the detailed explanations in the two linked articles.

But polygamy hadn't been practiced in centuries, is it still even legal?
The practice was never made illegal and there may have been some less prominent examples after Maegor, as stated in this SSM. Furthermore, Jorah suggests it to Dany as a viable option.

Weren't the Kingsguard at Tower of Joy on the basis of an order from Aerys, to guard Lyanna as a hostage?
Aerys was sane enough to realize how taking someone hostage works even at the end of the Rebellion, and he would hardly miss the opportunity to bring Ned and Robert in line any time after the situation started to look really serious.
Furthermore, regardless of on whose order the Kingsguard might have stayed at Tower of Joy, they would still be in dereliction of their duty to guard the new king.

This theory is too obvious and too many people believe it to be fact. How can it be true?
The theory is not obvious to the majority of readers. Some will get it on first read, most will not. Keep in mind that readers who go to online fan forums, such as this one, represent a very small minority of the A Song of Ice and Fire readership. Also, A Game of Thrones has been out since 1996. That's more than 17 years of readers being able to piece together this mystery.

Why doesn't Ned ever think about Lyanna being Jon's mother?
Ned doesn't think about anyone as being his mother. He says the name 'Wylla' to Robert, but does not actively think that Wylla is the mother. He also doesn't think of Jon as his son. There are numerous mysteries in the series, and Jon's parentage is one of those. If Ned thought about Jon being Lyanna's son, it would not be a mystery.

Why should we care who Jon's parents are? Will Jon care? Who cares if he's legitimate?
Once one accepts that the evidence is conclusive and that Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna and that he is most probably legitimate, these become the important questions.

Since this theory has been refined so well, will Martin change the outcome of the story to surprise his fans?
No, he said he won't change the outcome of the story only because some people have put together all the clues and solved the puzzle.


Previous editions:

Please click on the spoiler below to reveal links to all previous editions of this thread.

Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread one)

Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread two)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part III)” (thread three)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part IV)” (thread four)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part V)” (thread five)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part VI)” (thread six)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Thread Part VII” (thread seven)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part VIII” (thread eight)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part IX” (thread nine)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna =Jon Thread, Part X”(thread ten)

The R+L=J thread, part XI” (thread eleven)

The R+L=J thread, part XII” (thread twelve)

R+L=J Part XXIII” (thread thirteen)

R+L=J Part XXIV” (thread fourteen)

R+L=J XXV” (thread fifteen)

R+L=J v.16” (thread sixteen)

R+L=J v.17” (thread seventeen)

R+L=J v.18” (thread eighteen)

R+L=J v.19” (thread nineteen)

R+L=J v.20” (thread twenty)

R+L=J v.21” (thread twenty-one)

R+L=J v.22” (thread twenty-two)

R+L=J v.22a” (thread twenty-two (a))

R+L=J v.23” (thread twenty-three)

R+L=J v.24” (thread twenty-four)

R+L=J v.25” (thread twenty-five)

R+L=J v.26” (thread twenty-six)

R+L=J v.27” (thread twenty-seven)

R+L=J v.28” (thread twenty-eight)

R+L=J v.29” (thread twenty-nine)

R+L=J v.30” (thread thirty)

R+L=J v.31” (thread thirty-one)

R+L=J v.32” (thread thirty-two)

R+L=J v.33” (thread thirty-three)

R+L=J v.34” (thread thirty-four)

R+L=J v.35” (thread thirty-five)

R+L=J v.36” (thread thirty-six)

R+L=J v.37” (thread thirty-seven)

R+L=J v.38” (thread thirty-eight)

R+L=J v.39” (thread thirty-nine)

"R+L=J v.40" (thread forty)

"R+L=J v.41" (thread forty-one)

"R+L=J v.42" (thread forty-two)

"R+L=J v.43" (thread forty-three)

"R+L=J v.44" (thread forty-four)

"R+L=J v.45" (thread forty-five)

"R+L=J v.46" (thread forty-six)

"R+L=J v.47" (thread forty-seven)

"R+L=J v.48" (thread forty-eight)

"R+L=J v.49" (thread forty-nine)

"R+L=J v.50" (thread fifty)

"R+L=J v.51" (thread fifty-one)

"R+L=J v.52" (thread fifty-two)

"R+L=J v.53" (thread fifty-three)

"R+L=J v.54" (thread fifty-four)

"R+L=J v.55" (thread fifty-five)

"R+L=J v.56" (thread fifty-six)

"R+L=J v.57" (thread fifty-seven)

"R+L=J v.58" (thread fifty-eight)

"R+L=J v.59" (thread fifty-nine)

"R+L=J v.60" (thread sixty)

"R+L=J v.61" (thread sixty-one)

"R+L=J v.62" (thread sixty-two)

"R+L=J v.63" (thread sixty-three)

"R+L=J v.64" (thread sixty-four)

"R+L=J v.65" (thread sixty-five)

"R+L=J v.66" (thread sixty-six)

"R+L=J v.67" (thread sixty-seven)

"R+L=J v.68" (thread sixty-eight)

"R+L=J v.69" (thread sixty-nine)

"R+L=J v.70" (thread seventy)
"R+L=J v.71" (thread seventy-one)

"R+L=J v.72" (thread seventy-two)

"R+L=J v.73" (thread seventy-three)

"R+L=J v.74" (thread seventy-four)

"R+L=J v.75" (thread seventy-five)

"R+L=J v.76" (thread seventy-six)

"R+L=J v.77" (thread seventy-seven)

"R+L=J v.78" (thread seventy-eight)

"R+L=J v.79" (thread seventy-nine)

"R+L=J v.80" (thread eighty)

"R+L=J v.81" (thread eighty-one)

"R+L=J v.82" (thread eighty-two)

"R+L=J v.83" (thread eighty-three)

"R+L=J v.84" (thread eighty-four)

"R+L=J v.85" (thread eighty-five)

"R+L=J v.86" (thread eighty-six)

"R+L=J v.87" (thread eighty-seven)

"R+L=J v.88" (thread eighty-eight)

"R+L=J v.89" (thread eighty-nine)

"R+L=J v.90" (thread ninety)

"R+L=J v.91" (thread ninety-one)

"R+L=J v.92" (thread ninety-two)

"R+L=J v.93" (thread ninety-three)

"R+L=J v.94" (thread ninety-four)

"R+L=J v.95" (thread ninety-five)

"R+L=J v.96" (thread ninety-six)

"R+L=J v. 97" (thread ninety-seven)

"R+L=J v. 98" (thread ninety-eight)

"R+L=J v. 99" (thread ninety-nine)

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First of her name.





I've already had my merlot.





LOL Still undecided whether to open my 'Sassicaia 2004' or leaving it for my daughter's (British) university acceptance letter :lol:


Seven hells, it was v.25ish when I started posting :stunned:






Wait for the mods. One should happen along shortly, I reported the thread ages ago :cool4:





Lady G, I listenend to episode 4 yesterday, while shamelessly bathing in the sun... Two words: pure brilliance. Yolkboy's little peek&tease almost got me killed (not to mention his utterance of the word 'ethos'... classical geekgasm ;)).


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Lady G, I listenend to episode 4 yesterday, while shamelessly bathing in the sun... Two words: pure brilliance. Yolkboy's little peek&tease almost got me killed (not to mention his utterance of the word 'ethos'... classical geekgasm ;))

I second that @Lady Gwynhyfvar and @Yolkboy, I enjoyed it a lot

and look forward to R + L= ep 5.

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A special :grouphug: to all the people who have been sharing my watch since taking the black... you know who you are :love:


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Ah, were we done waiting? :P

I hear a Ghost Thread rumbeling, we're waiting for the thread that never comes!

Free floating, too, like @Lost Melnibonean's white mist...

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Btw, how do we get a thread pinned?

I've reported it right after creation and hope for the mods to be mercyful. That's the way I know.

eta: the thread has been pinned. The mods are good!

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I've never understood the R+L=J hysteria on these boards. (100 threads discussing a few passages of text, really?) Even assuming that the theory is true, how much of an impact on the story can it realistically have? Jon is a sworn brother of the nightswatch and even if he decided to forsake his vows why would he abandon the North with the whitewalker threat looming and all...? Besides, even when Jon eventually discovers the truth, how will he convince Westeros?


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:grouphug: to my first “home” on the forum! Congrats on 100 threads!!!!!! (my 63rd!)


Thanks to all you peeps who have kept me company on my watch for being so lovely (you know who you are ;) )


As circular and repetitive as things ever get here, there are still amazing insights to be found— you all never cease to deliver!


:cheers: RLJ--- long may you reign!





PS. Hope you enjoy the teaser! And thanks all for the lovely words. The next one is dedicated to you :kiss:

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I've never understood the R+L=J hysteria on these boards. (100 threads discussing a few passages of text, really?) Even assuming that the theory is true, how much of an impact on the story can it realistically have? Jon is a sworn brother of the nightswatch and even if he decided to forsake his vows why would he abandon the North with the whitewalker threat looming and all...? Besides, even when Jon eventually discovers the truth, how will he convince Westeros?

Only being able to answer for meself: I stopped caring much about what would become of Jon. That's up to George. But I enjoy discovering all the hidden stories inside the surface stories he is telling. The R+L=J is maybe the biggest of the hidden stories, and the best researched. But there are others too. :)

R+L=J is great fun, not only because of "You know nothing, Jon Snow" but because of the many implications where truths are blatantly reversed, in what Jon is saying. And more.

And even though no one yet has built a concordance to list all the hints, there are many and more of them. It is great fun, that's what it is.

eta: just found a thread, where a newbee to the forum is trying to list all the clues to R+L=J.

PS. Hope you enjoyed the teaser! And thanks all for the lovely words. The next one is dedicated to you :kiss:

We sure did! :)

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I've never understood the R+L=J hysteria on these boards. (100 threads discussing a few passages of text, really?) Even assuming that the theory is true, how much of an impact on the story can it realistically have? Jon is a sworn brother of the nightswatch and even if he decided to forsake his vows why would he abandon the North with the whitewalker threat looming and all...? Besides, even when Jon eventually discovers the truth, how will he convince Westeros?

It shall not end until my death,if he is dead is resurrected his watch is over and i dont think there will be Night's Watch after TOW.He might use the truth about his parentage to unify the Seven Kingdooms against the real enemy.Last but not least,we think that there is something in Lyanna's tomb that will prove it like a Dragon egg,Wedding cloak,Dark Sister maybe,Rhaegar's harp,some kind of degree by Rhaegar and others if that's not enough,mounting a dragon will prove it.Jon's parentage has a huge impact on the story if you haven't noticed.

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:grouphug: to my first “home” on the forum! Congrats on 100 threads!!!!!! (my 63rd!)

Thanks to all you peeps who have kept me company on my watch for being so lovely (you know who you are ;) )

As circular and repetitive as things ever get here, there are still amazing insights to be found— you all never cease to deliver!

:cheers: RLJ--- long may you reign!

PS. Hope you enjoy the teaser! And thanks all for the lovely words. The next one is dedicated to you :kiss:

:grouphug:

Only being able to answer for meself: I stopped caring much about what would become of Jon. That's up to George. But I enjoy discovering all the hidden stories inside the surface stories he is telling. The R+L=J is maybe the biggest of the hidden stories, and the best researched. But there are others too. :)

R+L=J is great fun, not only because of "You know nothing, Jon Snow" but because of the many implications where truths are blatantly reversed, in what Jon is saying. And more.

And even though no one yet has built a concordance to list all the hints, there are many and more of them. It is great fun, that's what it is.

:agree: Once divested of the (sometimes excessive) personal investment, it can be an exciting treasure hunt.

Little hints and parallels never stop popping up:

"What do you see, my lady?" the boy asked, softly.

Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow.

What do these skulls represent?

The skulls are death.

Same book, different chapter:

Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna and thousands died for it.

What, on a textual level, seems to be a vision of the future, on a meta-textual level could possibly hint at the past (Jon's birth is inextricably linked to loss and death).

Interesting enough, the passage is the same we have often discussed on this thread, shadows half-seen behind fluttering courtains (undisclosed identities?), fiery tongues of red and orange and all ;)

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What? No party? Oh, well!



I have one question to ask. Have we definitely solved this riddle?


I need to ask a supplementary question. Does anyone recall what it was?



Slight shift of focus now.....


When does anyone expect GRRM to reveal it in the books? Obvious choice of either WINDS or SPRING.


Where in whichever book you've chosen. To keep it simple, select from: Prologue; Beginning; Middle; End; Epilogue


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