On and On About Harry & Meghan Part 4

[James Arryn]

6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Slavery history lessons to be compulsory

If only. Thankfully the world is much much better 14 years after they did this isn't it.

Confused.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/school-compulsory-lessons-colony-slave-trade-b1807571.html

[Spockydog]

Hands up any parents whose kids have been educated about Britain's pioneering role in the transatlantic slave trade, or, for that matter, the enslavement of entire nations in the name of the British Empire.

Anyone?

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Spockydog

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, Spockydog said:

I think most intelligent people are aware of how slavery contributed to the "Greatness" of Britain, despite our leaders' desires to have it all brushed it all under the carpet.

Liverpool, Bristol, Glasgow, to name but a few British cites literally built on the blood of Africans.

 

Not to mention the Windrush generation, deliberately brought in from the Caribbean to rebuild the wreckage of Britain after WWII -- and now, kick 'em and their progeny out as illegals.  How fucking cruel, racist and colonialist is that?  

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

9 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Hands up any parents whose kids have been educated about Britain's pioneering role in the transatlantic slave trade, or, for that matter, the enslavement of entire nations in the name of the British Empire.

Anyone?

 

6 hours ago, Zorral said:

Not to mention the Windrush generation, deliberately brought in from the Caribbean to rebuild the wreckage of Britain after WWII -- and now, kick 'em and their progeny out as illegals.  How fucking cruel, racist and colonialist is that?  

“The Hostile Environment”, brought to you by a coalition of Tories and Lib Dems; Egged on by UKIP psychos who would have liked to have gone farther, no doubt.

Possibly the most fun I’ve ever had being a voyeur on social media was the weekend after QE2 died. Black Twitter and Irish Twitter were fucking going off.

And quite a few people on social media got one hell of an education on just how hated the British monarchy is in places. Me included.

On the one hand you had the “The Crown” watching, well meaning so-and-so saying, “Hey guys, let’s just be respectful because this nice lady died.” On the other hand you had one response (paraphrasing), “Fuck off, My family is from Kenya. My grandmother was tortured by the goddamn British. Fuck the Queen. I’m glad she’s dead.” And this is the RF member who was the most loved and respected.

And from what I could see, the English press reported none of this.

[Varysblackfyre321]

21 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I want the people who are accusing her of calling the royal family “racist” to show me where she said that. She’s even been accused of calling the Queen racist.

It’s weird  I’m guessing the vast majority of these people praised Chris rock for saying Markle should have recognized the Royal family as racist on the onset.

I agreed with him even though I think he immediately said something racist afterwards.

Also if we’re just going with they’ve alleged someone within the RF did a racism is the same as saying the Royal family is racist does that work in other circumstances?

Prince Andrew raped underaged sex slaves with Epstein. Ergo the Royal family are sexual predators.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321

[Varysblackfyre321]

11 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Slavery history lessons to be compulsory

If only. Thankfully the world is much much better 14 years after they did this isn't it.

 

Hmm it feels like you’re angry that academia doesn’t just pontificate on how awesome and advanced Britain was throughout history when it comes to instruction on its history, like you want it to be a safe space for nationalism.

 

If not I don’t see the issue you seem to be alluding to here—yes Britain’s history of racial and ethnic politics is complicated some good, some bad. It should be taught appropriately.

 

Like you don’t have to say it’s the evilest empire in history, but I don’t know when discussing a massacre it committed in India against peaceful protesters you don’t have to immediately try frame it as a necessary evil for peace and stability and democracy and whatever word sounds good at the moment.

On 6/25/2023 at 12:13 PM, Tywin et al. said:

Why not all of the above? They were racist towards everyone under the British Empire and if you travelled to England best bet you'd experience racism even if you did everything to fit in (and as others have pointed out, even if you're now seen as someone who is white).

Yeah it shouldn’t  be controversial to say during colonialism is African-English, or Indian-English would get less equitable treatment from broader society than white-English people who made up the majority. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321

[Darzin]

12 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Idk about that. In the US a lot of well educated white people will say slavery is bad, but they don't think they benefited from it nor do they think it's a contributing factor in black households having significantly less wealth. It's a large part of the current climate we're seeing. There's so much pushback to teaching these events in schools by parents and it's because they don't want to face reality. I'm sure the UK is in a somewhat similar situation. 

I feel like in the US most well educated white people agree with those premises. It's more the uneducated white people pushing back. Though that may be more regional, but where I'm from every good educated white  person  is very keen to self flagellate about how much they've benefitted from slavery whereas dudes with a plumbing business couldn't care less. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Darzin said:

I feel like in the US most well educated white people agree with those premises. It's more the uneducated white people pushing back. Though that may be more regional, but where I'm from every good educated white  person  is very keen to self flagellate about how much they've benefitted from slavery whereas dudes with a plumbing business couldn't care less. 

There's a lot of white college grads in the South that like Civil War reenactments. And there's also a lot of white college grads everywhere who are also bigots, it's not just a Southern problem though they're probably the worst in the US.

I highly recommend the book Robert E. Lee and Me.

Quote

In a forceful but humane narrative, former soldier and head of the West Point history department Ty Seidule's Robert E. Lee and Me challenges the myths and lies of the Confederate legacy―and explores why some of this country’s oldest wounds have never healed.

It's an autobiography from as mentioned a military officer and academic who grew up worshiping Robert E. Lee and how it took him well into adulthood to realize why what he believed for most of his life was absolutely wrong. He might be the outlier in that he recognized it.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[Cas Stark]

 Sometimes a spoon is just a spoon.  Maybe they lose staff a high rate and were accused of bullying, wait for it, because they are difficult to work for.  Maybe entertainment insiders are criticizing them, Spotify ended the deal, etc. because they are difficult to work with and don't have the requisite 'talent' to make the difficulty palatable. Maybe people who find the couple unlikeable base that on their words and actions and not her ethnicity.  Just a thought.  

[Raja]

Everyone knows there is no spoon.

[Zorral]

14 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Prince Andrew raped underaged sex slaves with Epstein. Ergo the Royal family are sexual predators.

To be honest, throughout history, most ruling families everywhere ARE sexual predators.

[polishgenius]

5 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

 Sometimes a spoon is just a spoon.  Maybe they lose staff a high rate and were accused of bullying, wait for it, because they are difficult to work for.  Maybe entertainment insiders are criticizing them, Spotify ended the deal, etc. because they are difficult to work with and don't have the requisite 'talent' to make the difficulty palatable. Maybe people who find the couple unlikeable base that on their words and actions and not her ethnicity.  Just a thought.  

 

You do realise that it is possible for them to be not particularly nice people and for them to have been horribly treated and Meghan's race to be a factor in that, right? Like what are you a fucking Sith? Fucking George Bush here dealing in absolutes? 

[Heartofice]

19 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

You do realise that it is possible for them to be not particularly nice people and for them to have been horribly treated and Meghan's race to be a factor in that, right? Like what are you a fucking Sith? Fucking George Bush here dealing in absolutes? 

There is plenty of evidence that she’s not a nice person

Theres evidence she was treated badly

There isn’t any evidence it was motivated by her race.

So it’s pretty easy to come to conclusions. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Heartofice

[Varysblackfyre321]

3 hours ago, Zorral said:

To be honest, throughout history, most ruling families everywhere ARE sexual predators.

Oh absolutely, and to be clear it’d be really weird if on average if the majority of the royal family wasn’t especially bigoted compared to the common person.

My point was merely noting one was racist isn’t saying it’s all racist.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

If you're going to argue there's no evidence that race is a factor then you also need to argue with absolute evidence that we all look alike. 

 

[Cas Stark]

15 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

If you're going to argue there's no evidence that race is a factor then you also need to argue with absolute evidence that we all look alike. 

 

Eh, the actual evidence that race was a factor in negative media coverage is very, very slim.  There was a handful, and by 'handful' I mean probably less than six, stories that could reasonably be considered to have any kind of racial angle.  The 'straight outa compton' story and the 'exotic dna' stories.  As far as I know, and I follow the royal stuff pretty closely, that's it.  Of course there were racist comments on social media, but that isn't the same thing.

Meghan got rapturous coverage until details about her actual behavior began to leak out.  Did the palace let this stuff leak because she was biracial?  Or because she was behaving terribly?  That is unknowable.

What is knowable is that there were years more negative stories about Kate and Camilla and Fergie than about Meghan.  Years and years more and certainly the Camilla coverage in the 90s was much more vicious than anything written about Meghan, with the possible exception of the Clarkson piece where he admits desiring a Cersei Lannister walk of shame for her.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Cas Stark

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Eh, the actual evidence that race was a factor in negative media coverage is very, very slim.  There was a handful, and by 'handful' I mean probably less than six, stories that could reasonably be considered to have any kind of racial angle. 

Only if you chose not to look. I will use this uncomfortable example again:

Quote

You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”

A lot of the coverage around Meghan reflects the above. And the above quote comes from Lee Atwater who was likeminded with Murdoch and a lot of conservatives in general, both in office and in the media. They all know the dance they're doing.

Quote

Meghan got rapturous coverage until details about her actual behavior began to leak out.  Did the palace let this stuff leak because she was biracial?  Or because she was behaving terribly?  That is unknowable.

Nah, the negative press really started when H&M started to question the royal family and their history. Then the floodgates were out. Who exactly do you think did that? 

Quote

What is knowable is that there were years more negative stories about Kate

I'm just stopping here because this is comedy. Meghan has gotten way more negative press. Idk how you even compare the two. Kate has been pretty invisible for years now outside of the she won't peg William stuff which I doubt is true.

[Cas Stark]

17 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Only if you chose not to look. I will use this uncomfortable example again:

A lot of the coverage around Meghan reflects the above. And the above quote comes from Lee Atwater who was likeminded with Murdoch and a lot of conservatives in general, both in office and in the media. They all know the dance they're doing.

Nah, the negative press really started when H&M started to question the royal family and their history. Then the floodgates were out. Who exactly do you think did that? 

I'm just stopping here because this is comedy. Meghan has gotten way more negative press. Idk how you even compare the two. Kate has been pretty invisible for years now outside of the she won't peg William stuff which I doubt is true.

When exactly did they do that while they were still 'working royals'?  

Now she has gotten more negative press, of course, that isn't what I said.  I said that Kate endured years of negative press, while Meghan didn't get any negative press until stories about her behavior began leaking.  

The Lee Atwater quote is completely irrelevant to this issue AND is from the 1980s, you know 40 years ago.   Meghan was dragged for allegations of bullying, for allegations she wanted to keep freebies, that she demanded a specific tiara, for allegations she was mean to Kate, that she failed to follow royal protocol, that she had a Kardashianesque baby shower.  None of that has any kind of racial undertone.  

Edited June 27, 2023 by Cas Stark

[Heartofice]

54 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

If you're going to argue there's no evidence that race is a factor then you also need to argue with absolute evidence that we all look alike. 

 

Lol, that’s the daftest thing I’ve ever heard. Not using a lot of critical thinking again are you. 
 

Has anyone else who has joined the royal family had a rough time from the media? Hmmm

[Theda Baratheon]

I haven’t even wanted to delve into this thread because I get so, SO frustrated with so many people discussing Harry and Meghan. I don’t even particularly care about them but it is truly hard to ignore how FOUL the British Press and establishment has been towards her. Especially if you ever put the reporting of her side by side with the reporting of Kate. 
 

munecat on YouTube did a couple of excellent videos on this.