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[Spoilers] Episode 105 Discussion


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Damn they're making Daemon even more of a monster than I thought he was. Of all the "tragic accidents" in this story Rhea's death was always the least suspicious, I thought. I guess it's a more interesting opening scene than her just falling off her horse. 

She seemed pretty awesome in the brief time we got to spend with her.

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7 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Damn they're making Daemon even more of a monster than I thought he was. Of all the "tragic accidents" in this story Rhea's death was always the least suspicious, I thought. I guess it's a more interesting opening scene than her just falling off her horse. 

She seemed pretty awesome in the brief time we got to spend with her.

I wonder if this means he'll off Laenor now.

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5 minutes ago, zajaz said:

So, the writers seem to continue going for espectacle and drama over internal consistency. Criston would have been thrown out of the Kingsguard for doing something like this in the books, right? At a wedding reception, no less. A tourney is more acceptable because "accidents happen", but... this?

Only if Alicent revealed what he did.  Only if Criston told anyone other than Alicent.  Alicent needs an ally… Criston’s guilt and shame provides her one.

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison
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4 minutes ago, zajaz said:

So, the writers seem to continue going for espectacle and drama over internal consistency. Criston would have been thrown out of the Kingsguard for doing something like this in the books, right? At a wedding reception, no less. A tourney is more acceptable because "accidents happen", but... this?

"He had a knife and was near the princess, I believed her life was in danger." 

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12 minutes ago, zajaz said:

So, the writers seem to continue going for espectacle and drama over internal consistency. Criston would have been thrown out of the Kingsguard for doing something like this in the books, right? At a wedding reception, no less. A tourney is more acceptable because "accidents happen", but... this?

So, you're saying someone who's in a pretty high position of law enforcement would surely see justice for his crimes?

Edited by Winterfell is Burning
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9 minutes ago, zajaz said:

So, the writers seem to continue going for espectacle and drama over internal consistency. Criston would have been thrown out of the Kingsguard for doing something like this in the books, right? At a wedding reception, no less. A tourney is more acceptable because "accidents happen", but... this?

I guess they just didn't wanna spend the money for another tourney scene. I don't know what would have happened in the books. They can't really throw him out because they serve for life. So it's death, the wall or give him another chance. I think we have to assume Alicent stood up for him. Rhaenyra probably would have too at that point. 

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35 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Damn they're making Daemon even more of a monster than I thought he was. Of all the "tragic accidents" in this story Rhea's death was always the least suspicious, I thought. I guess it's a more interesting opening scene than her just falling off her horse. 

She seemed pretty awesome in the brief time we got to spend with her.

Don't you think that a woman who knew him, who was his wife, would continue insulting him in the bitterest of terms, when she knew what he was capable of?  I found this a bit contrived. 

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In the inside the episode thing some guy they oddly don't bother to identify says he read the book and "obviously Daemon killed his wife." Except this is the passage:

Quote

A year later, in 115 AC, there came a tragic mishap, of the sort that shapes the destiny of kingdoms: the “bronze bitch” of Runestone, Lady Rhea Royce, fell from her horse whilst hawking and cracked her skull upon a stone. She lingered for nine days before finally feeling well enough to leave her bed…only to collapse and die within an hour of rising.

So she probably would have identified Daemon as her killer if that was the case. 

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9 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

So, you're saying someone who's in a pretty high position of law enforcement would surely see justice for his crimes?

I mean Lucamore Strong did, and he didn't kill another knight at a wedding feast, AFAIK. Also, the Kingsguard being a law enforcement institution? I thought they were just glorified bodyguards. The Gold Cloaks fit the bill much better, I would think.

Edited by zajaz
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Just now, zajaz said:

I mean Lucamore Strong did, and his crimes were a little bit less worse than this, IMO. Also, Kingsguard being a law enforcement institution? I thought they were just glorified bodyguards. The Gold Cloaks fit the bill much better, I would think.

This was in jest sure, but the point still stands. We see a lot of people do worse and get away with, in Westeros and in real life.

 

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A great episode which really started the game of the thrones but was unfortunately nearly ruined by the rushed ending. 

Starting with that ending, I guess this is where we hit the budget limitation, as instead of seeing Ser Criston beat Ser Joffrey to death in a tournament setting, which the show had already established it could get bloody, he commits murder at a feast. I'm sure Alicent will give a perfectly legitimate excuse for Criston's behavior in the next episode, unless we get a time jump, but right now it's ridiculous. As was the rushed wedding in the throne room without the hall even being cleaned. I don't know why we couldn't have had another quick tourney, maybe a melee to change it up and show more pageantry and great costumes (seriously, this show really has had great costumes) and have Joffrey get pummeled there. And we also would have gotten Breakbones beat the crap out of people in armor. oh well

I suppose the writers went for a more sadder & dramatic bursting of the simmering bubble of tensions, which the episode had built up pretty well.

But the elephant in the room is Rhaenyra's dress. So are we getting the whites vs the greens now, or is the show simply not going to utilize those monikers? Would a red dress not have worked?

I'm worried that they made the rate of Viserys's health decline too great. He has great scale? Surely not, otherwise no one with a ten foot pole will touch him.

While the episode started with Daemon likely being placed on top of every viewer's hate list, I'm glad to see Criston climbing the ladder quickly.

Yet, for all these faults, the episode continued with the great acting, music, sets, (I loved High Tide!!!) and dialogue scenes. I liked Otto's moment with Alicent, almost like a crueler version of kill the boy, let the man be borne. Corlys being a dick towards Viserys and the intimate scene with Rhaenys. And of course, Larys Clubfoot with Alicent. Also, there were a number of great shots, like Criston in front of the heart tree, Maelys the Red Queen and Seasmoke, plus the ships.

Anyway, final thought, Rhea Royce >>>>> any sheep in the world, and while she may have had a bitchy personality, she deserved better. #JusticeforRhea.

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Well, that took a turn for the worse, didn't it? The episode started off strong but quickly became ridiculous.

First thing's first, I now feel a sense of kindredness with Ryan Condal, as I previously suggested that Sansa should marry Whoresbane for the same reason that Rhaenyra married Laenor :P

I look forward to the many gifs/memes of Harwin Strong punching people.

I thought the dialogue was good until they used the word "c*ntstruck," and it immediately washed away the past forty minutes of good work. That was some pure D&D cringe right there. I also burst out laughing when Criston said that Rhaenyra "wanted him to be her whore."

Did they really have to go all-out and make Daemon a full-fledged sociopath? And if this guy has such bad erectile disfunction, how did he father four children? And why would the Velaryons ever let Laena marry someone believed to have murdered his wife?

I liked the fact that they made Laenor kind of insecure and unsure of himself. At the same time, I think Joffrey was a little too forward, especially since he wasn't actually trying to provoke anyone.

So Criston attacked Joffrey because he was ashamed of himself, or thought that Joffrey could expose him? It was a big mistake to have the attack happen off-screen. We should have seen how it started. Who is Criston Cole, anyway? Is he just some big dope? I don't feel like I know this character at all.

They also should have shown some kind of connection between Rhaenyra and Harwin beyond him pulling her out of the crowd. Maybe they'll manage to make up for it next episode, but that's a tall order considering the huge gap.

I liked the scenes between Corlys and Rhaenys. It allowed us to see Corlys let his guard down for once, and I liked his denial about Laenor's orientation; it felt realistic. (Although Clare Kilner's commentary about how he and Viserys are "stuck in the past" unlike Rhaenyra and Laenor was kind of dumb. We've seen what the future looks like, remember? I seem to recall a queen's infidelity leading to a massive civil war).

How did they manage to make a massively eventful episode feel so slow and empty? 

 

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11 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Only if Alicent revealed what he did.  Only if Criston told anyone other than Alicent.  Alicent needs an ally… Criston’s guilt and shame provides her one.

I think they are talking about what Ser Criston did at the wedding, not having sex with the Princess. I'm wondering if he actually stays in the KG or if the Queen speaks up for him and he becomes her sworn sword. He then could of course re-join later.

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1 minute ago, lakin1013 said:

Don't you think that a woman who knew him, who was his wife, would continue insulting him in the bitterest of terms, when she knew what he was capable of?  I found this a bit contrived. 

Well she didn't start insulting him until she was on the ground, right? I think we're meant to read it as Daemon was going to leave her to die slowly (risky and stupid, but whatever) and she taunted him into giving her a quicker death. Maybe also in the hope that the coup de grace would make it look more like murder. 

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To quote Sheldon Cooper, "I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would" :D

MVP of the episode was Alicent and her entrance. I loved that quote about color of the flame and finally we are gearing up for Blacks v Greens. I miss good old days when a simple costume would tell a story. That was what this was and I have enjoyed it.

As for Criston, he could easily justify himself. People were drinking, he attacked me, threatened the Princess and I reacted. Not a story I would find unbelievable.

Rhea's death was expected for me. I sincerely doubted that they would kill her off screen, or just by some accident. Daemon doing so gives him much darker tone, but that is Daemon.

 

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2 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

Don't you think that a woman who knew him, who was his wife, would continue insulting him in the bitterest of terms, when she knew what he was capable of?  I found this a bit contrived. 

Why not? Plenty of people do that, and this probably wasn't the first time she did it.

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I really love this series so far. Really gripping episode IMO and nice setup for blacks vs. greens in the future.

Gotta say, if I had not read the novella, I would be Team Alicent all the way. They have done a great job of making her someone sympathetic to root for.  At the same time, they have created enough doubt about Rhaenyra to make it a true choice between the two women.

I also like the Criston Cole storyline and how he became Team Alicent. Although I know the future, I was genuinely afraid he might kill himself. That’s good direction!  I’m so glad he offed Joffrey. I was thinking “that doofus gots to go!” But Laenor named his youngest after him, so I guess he does get to linger in that sense.

I gotta say that the changed/added storylines in this show seem much better than those in GoT. 

How the hell did Laena age so much when Rhaenyra and Alicent still look so young?

also Viserys looks too sick for someone who has to hang around for another 16 years!

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