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R+L=J v.89


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444 replies to this topic

#1 J. Stargaryen

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 02:55 PM

Reference guide

The Tower of the Hand has an excellent analysis of this theory:
Jon Snow's Parents

And Westeros' Citadel also provides a summary:
Jon Snow's Parents

A Wiki of Ice and Fire:
Jon Snow Theories


Frequently Asked Questions:

How can Jon be a Targaryen if he has a burned hand?
Targaryens are not immune to fire. Aerion Brightflame died drinking wildfire. Aegon V and his son Duncan are thought to have died in a fire-related event at Summerhall. Rhaenyra was eaten by Aegon II's dragon, presumably roasted by fire before the dragon took a bite. Viserys died when he was crowned with molten gold. Dany suffered burns from the fire pit incident at the end of A Dance with Dragons. Finally, the author has stated outright that Targaryens are not immune to fire. Jon's burned hand does not mean he is ineligible to be part Targaryen. For more information about the myth of Targaryen fire immunity, see this thread.

How can Jon be a Targ if he doesn't have silver hair and purple eyes?
Not all Targaryens had the typical Valyrian look. Alysanne had blue eyes. Baelor Breakspear and his son(s) had the Dornish look. Some of the Great Bastards did not have typical Valyrian features. Jon's own half-sister Rhaenys had her mother's Dornish look.

If Jon isn't Ned's son, then why does he look so much like him?
Much is made over the fact that Arya looks like Lyanna, and Jon looks like Arya. Ned and Lyanna shared similar looks.

How can Jon be half-Targ if he has a direwolf?
Ned's trueborn children are half Stark and half Tully. Being half Tully didn't prevent them from having a direwolf so there is no reason to think being half Targaryen would prevent Jon from having a direwolf. If Lyanna is his mother, then he's still half Stark. Furthermore, there is already a character who is half Targaryen and half blood of the First Men and was a skinchanger: Bloodraven.

Since Rhaegar was already married, wouldn't Jon still be a bastard?
The evidence that Jon is legitimate is that Targaryens have a history of polygamous marriages which makes it a possibility that Rhaegar had two wives. Three Kingsguards were present at the Tower of Joy when Ned arrived. Even after Ned said that Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon were dead and Viserys had fled to Dragonstone, the Kingsguard opted to stay at the Tower of Joy stating they were obeying their Kingsguard vow. The heart of a Kingsguard's vow is to protect the king. With Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon dead, the new king would have been Viserys, unless Lyanna's child was legitimate making him the new king of the Targaryen dynasty.
 For a comprehensive analysis of Jon's legitimacy, see the detailed explanations in the two linked articles.

But polygamy hadn't been practiced in centuries, is it still even legal?
The practice was never made illegal and there may have been some less prominent examples after Maegor, as stated in this SSM. Furthermore, Jorah suggests it to Dany as a viable option. 

Weren't the Kingsguard at Tower of Joy on the basis of an order from Aerys, to guard Lyanna as a hostage?
Aerys was sane enough to realize how taking someone hostage works even at the end of the Rebellion, and he would hardly miss the opportunity to bring Ned and Robert in line any time after the situation started to look really serious.
 Furthermore, regardless of on whose order the Kingsguard might have stayed at Tower of Joy, they would still be in dereliction of their duty to guard the new king.

This theory is too obvious and too many people believe it to be fact. How can it be true?
The theory is not obvious to the majority of readers. Some will get it on first read, most will not. Keep in mind that readers who go to online fan forums, such as this one, represent a very small minority of the A Song of Ice and Fire readership. Also, A Game of Thrones has been out since 1996. That's more than 17 years of readers being able to piece together this mystery.

Why doesn't Ned ever think about Lyanna being Jon's mother?
Ned doesn't think about anyone as being his mother. He says the name 'Wylla' to Robert, but does not actively think that Wylla is the mother. He also doesn't think of Jon as his son. There are numerous mysteries in the series, and Jon's parentage is one of those. If Ned thought about Jon being Lyanna's son, it would not be a mystery.

Why should we care who Jon's parents are? Will Jon careWho cares if he's legitimate?
Once one accepts that the evidence is conclusive and that Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna and that he is most probably legitimate, these become the important questions.

Previous editions:

 

Please click on the spoiler below to reveal links to all previous editions of this thread.

 

Spoiler


Edited by J. Stargaryen, 21 July 2014 - 10:40 PM.


#2 Jon Weirgaryen

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:00 PM

Thank you, @J. Stargaryen, I felt I was starving without a R+L=J thread.



#3 BearQueen87

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

Wow, 89 eh?

 

I feel like #100 needs to be a big celebration or something.

 

Anyway thanks J.Stargaryen!



#4 Apple Martini

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

This needs to be pinned before it falls off the front page.

#5 Jon Icefyre

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

Thank you, @J. Stargaryen, I felt I was starving without a R+L=J thread.

 

 

Wow, 89 eh?

 

I feel like #100 needs to be a big celebration or something.

 

Anyway thanks J.Stargaryen!

:agree:



#6 JonCon's Red Beard

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:07 PM

The last one got 20 pages pretty fast! I blame both stateofdisipation and Sean Bean.



#7 J. Stargaryen

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:08 PM

This needs to be pinned before it falls off the front page.

 

I reported it and asked for it to be pinned.

 

 

Thank you, @J. Stargaryen, I felt I was starving without a R+L=J thread.

 

Wow, 89 eh?

 

I feel like #100 needs to be a big celebration or something.

 

Anyway thanks J.Stargaryen!

 

 

 

:agree:

 

You guys are welcome. I actually was sort of hoping to start another one of these so I could fix some of the formatting in the spoiler section; e.g., R+L=J v.xx or R+L=J v xx, etc. It was sort of bothering me, but it was not something I felt was worth a mod's time.



#8 Lady Gwynhyfvar

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:19 PM

Wow, 89 eh?
 
I feel like #100 needs to be a big celebration or something.
 
Anyway thanks J.Stargaryen!


:agree:

I have something in mind... It might involve the word radio and should be quite timely ;)

I'll keep you guys posted :)

#9 UnmaskedLurker

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:30 PM

The last one got 20 pages pretty fast! I blame both stateofdisipation and Sean Bean.

With apologies to Mary Poppins (and Julie Andrews): Feed the trolls, tuppence a bag. Tuppence, tuppence, tuppence a bag.



#10 Iron Maiden Islands

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:04 PM

Sean Bean interview with Vulture

 

"I'm obviously not Jon Snow's dad. And you need that to be revealed at some point, don't you?"



#11 wallofice

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:56 PM

Sean Bean interview with Vulture

 

"I'm obviously not Jon Snow's dad. And you need that to be revealed at some point, don't you?"

 

I'm surprised that he specifically referenced the ADWD flashback with Ned praying in front of the heart tree. Does anyone know if he's read the books, or maybe the interviewer mentioned it to him off the record? I personally hope it means the scene is in the works (or was filmed previously), just so the question of Jon's parents can come back to the world of the show.

 

Anyway, I'll go back to lurking and enjoying everyone's amazingly detailed catches here.



#12 JonCon's Red Beard

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:57 PM

Sean Bean interview with Vulture

 

"I'm obviously not Jon Snow's dad. And you need that to be revealed at some point, don't you?"

 

Obviously. Jon Snow's dad is not Sean Bean.



#13 BearQueen87

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:57 PM

 

Obviously. Jon Snow's dad is not Sean Bean.

 

damn. There goes my theory.



#14 teej6

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:58 PM

The last one got 20 pages pretty fast! I blame both stateofdisipation and Sean Bean.


Lol. I get the SoD blame but why poor Sean Bean?

#15 UnmaskedLurker

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 05:01 PM

Lol. I get the SoD blame but why poor Sean Bean?

SB was the only source of new information. Everything else is just re-hash of theories discussed for years. SB gave us something sort of new to talk about.



#16 Winds of Winter blow cold

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 05:35 PM

The faster a R=L=J thread goes, the less we seem to be talking about.



#17 Ser Creighton

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 06:40 PM

:agree:
I have something in mind... It might involve the word radio and should be quite timely ;)
I'll keep you guys posted :)


I too have something in mind and it might involve the word alcohol.

#18 Jon Icefyre

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 07:36 PM

I too have something in mind and it might involve the word alcohol.

Sold! :cheers:



#19 BearQueen87

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 07:39 PM

I too have something in mind and it might involve the word alcohol.

 

Are we invited?



#20 Alia of the knife

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 11:03 PM

I too have something in mind and it might involve the word alcohol.


Merlot.